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Active : 05/27/2010 @ 11:35 AM
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hi guys - i'm using dragon 10 on winXP; i'm trying to have dragon 10's text-to-speech come out of my usb headset, while having all other normal windows sounds come out of my regular computer speakers.
is this possible to set up this way so its always this way by default?
Note that my usb headset AND my regular comptuer speakers are always plugged in, i dont remove them.
So far I've found that the only way is to have ALL sounds come out of the headset or ALL sounds come out of the speakers. (by going into control panel, tediously, and switching my output device).
Why cant dragon10 offer a selection of audio output devices to choose from, just like skype does? After all, dragon10 does offer a choice of input devices if it finds more than one. Why not also for its text-to-speech output device?
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Welcome to the KnowBrainer Forums
If you were using a VoIP application like Skype, this wouldn't be an issue but with NaturallySpeaking, it's all or nothing. You either have to send all sound output to your speakers or headset. Developer ofKnowBrainer 2010 Nuance NaturallySpeakingCertifiedBBBAccredited Speech RecognitionSolutions Provider
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ok,thanks for the info. Thats a pity. Changing this would be on the top of my wishlist for dragon (along with a "select sentence" command option where it selects (or reads, or deletes, etc) from the previous instance of a period, up to the cursor.)
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We don't expect Nuance to make any output sound assignment changes but the ability to select, read and delete sentences already exists. Some examples of these commands are <read, delete or select> sentence and <read, delete or select> <previous or next> sentence. However, these commands can be tricky to globally deploy so they currently only exist in Microsoft Word and WordPerfect. Outlook 2007, WordPad and DragonPad lack this capability. Developer ofKnowBrainer 2010 Nuance NaturallySpeakingCertifiedBBBAccredited Speech RecognitionSolutions Provider
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Quote:
ok,thanks for the info. Thats a pity. Changing this would be on the top of my wishlist for dragon (along with a "select sentence" command option where it selects (or reads, or deletes, etc) from the previous instance of a period, up to the cursor.)
jak2000,
Just to add some additional information to Lunis' explanation, most users are unaware of the fact that at one point in time L&H almost made the decision to eliminate the read back function altogether. When I was the release engineer and SDK Program Manager for Dragon NaturallySpeaking, I refused to release the product (DNS 6.0) without this feature. Fortunately, upper-level management at the time backed my decision.
Also, the TTS engine in DNS is based on RealSpeak 2.0, which is an older version of Jennifer (US English) and Jane (UK English). Otherwise, RealSpeak by itself with all the available current version speakers (supported languages) is an extremely expensive product (upwards of $5000). Be glad you have what you have whatever its limitations. You almost didn't have it. Current version of RealSpeak with its associated TTS speakers is probably now up to 5.0 or better. I haven't kept track of it simply because I have no need to, but I do remember that the last version that I was aware of was 5.0.
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hey guys - so i just tried this out, with only limited success. here's what i'm seeing:
-in word 07, "select sentence" seems to work (and this only if I have "natural commands in word" option checked).
-in word 07, even with that checked, 'read sentence' did not work. Also, even after selecting the sentence, if I then said "read that" (which usually works on a selection), it did not read that sentence back.
-however, the usual "read paragraph" and "read line" do continue to work.
Any ideas? Thanks!
chucker, thanks for the additional details. I dont suppose nuance is open to suggestions from users... i dont get that impression either from the nuance site or from talking the few times I did with nuance representatives.
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jak2000,
I suspect you have a problem with your DNS TTS Natural Language Commands. I can't offer you any suggestions as to exactly how to correct it, but all the commands you are having problems with work just fine for me in Microsoft Word 2007, including "select sentence" and "read that" afterwards. In short, all the read commands work just fine for me under all the conditions for which they are designed.
This is a tough nut to crack, but you might try the following:
1. We don't know what version of DNS you're using (i.e., Preferred, Professional, Medical, or Legal), so that would be helpful. We also don't know what version of Windows you're using (i.e., Windows XP, Windows Vista, Windows 7, 32-bit, 64-bit???).
2. If you have one of the professional versions, open the Command Browser and export all of your custom commands. Some of those custom commands will be custom commands provided by DNS out-of-the-box. However, don't worry about that. Just select and export all of your custom commands.
3. Go to the following location:
In Windows Vista and Windows 7,
C:\ProgramData\Nuance\NaturallySpeaking10\Users\<your user name>\current
In Windows XP,
C.:\Documents and settings\all users\application data\Nuance\NaturallySpeaking10\Users\<your user name>\current
4. Locate and rename the mycmds.dat to mycmds.bak or mycmds.old.
5. Shutdown DNS, then re-launch DNS and your user profile. This will create a pristine the mycmds.dat (i.e., out-of-the-box commands only).
6. Open the Command Browser and Import your custom commands (note that if you have preferred you can't either export or import custom commands. In that case, before you commands #4, if you have Text and Graphics macros, make sure that you have a copy of all of these before renaming the mycmds.dat file.
7. If you have one of the Professional versions, when you do the Import you will very likely be prompted that specific commands already exist and do you want to overwrite them. Under no circumstances should choose say anything but "No to all". If you allow the overwrite, you will very likely be back to square one and have to do it all over again. So, don't overwrite any commands that currently exist with those from your exported custom commands file. This is part of the reason why mycmds.dat files can get corrupted. This kind of corruption also occurs when you upgrade/migrate a user profile from an earlier version of DNS to the current version. This is why I and others always emphasize creating a new user because this is the type of baggage that can be carried across from version to version by converting/migrating an older version user profile to a newer version user profile. When I was DNS SDK Program Manager, I used to warn everybody about this type of problem and nobody took me seriously until now. So, don't ask why, just do it.
8. Close your user profile and reopen it. The reason for this is that importing commands doesn't necessarily update the snapshot of your mycmds.dat simply by importing. It should, in most of the time it does, but don't take it to the bank. Just close your user profile and reopen and allow DNS to reinitialize your mycmds.dat snapshot. If you look in the Dragon log you will see that occurring.
Try the read back commands again. If they work fine. If they don't, then try going to the Windows Control Panel, Add or Remove Programs (XP) or Programs and Features (Windows Vista & Windows 7) and selecting Change. In the InstallShield wizard for Dragon NaturallySpeaking you will have three options (Modify, Repair, and Remove). Select Repair and run it. Try the read back commands again and see if they work.
The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong, it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair.- Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)
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Quote:
chucker, thanks for the additional details. I dont suppose nuance is open to suggestions from users... i dont get that impression either from the nuance site or from talking the few times I did with nuance representatives.
jak2000,
It's not that Nuance won't listen. They do. The problem is that this is one feature that is probably never going to be modified in a manner that you would like to be. There is just no adequate Return on Investment (ROI) that would justify doing so. To do so would mean upgrading the TTS engine, which if you look at it is L&H because that's how all that is, and that would cost more to do than Nuance would get back on investing the time and effort required. In short, making that kind of change would be a major undertaking programmatically despite the fact that it looks fairly simple, and would have an extremely low priority. The last couple of versions have seen some relatively beneficial upgrades to the TTS functionality. However, these are all based on significant problematic issues reported by a very large majority of users. Unfortunately, my considered opinion in this case is that: (a) you ought to make the suggestion regardless of the outcome, and (b) do so with the expectation that it is highly unlikely that your suggestion will be taken seriously unless a lot of users make such a request. In addition, if you're using DNS Preferred, it probably ain't going to happen, or as we New Yorkers are fond of saying FAGETABOUTIT!!!.
Not trying to discourage you, just trying to be realistic. It's a very small change that's not necessarily easy to do, would require a lot of effort on the part of R&D as well as testing, and TTS just as a very low visibility on the radar screen.
.. a computer is a stupid machine with the ability to do incredibly smart things, while computer programmers are smart people with the ability to do incredibly stupid things. They are, in short, a perfect match. ~Bill Bryson
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hi chucker - as before, thanks much for your detailed replies.
I'm using DNS preferred, version 10.1, on a pentium M, 2.0ghz, 2gb ram, winxp SP3, 32 bit. (by the way i'm using the cs50 wireless microphone and its been a real champ).
I'll try following your procedure above, will report back.
by the way i never created any text or graphics macros. I'm assuming 'mycmds' only stores custom commands or macros? I dont believe i created either, so far.
Also, right now i have dragon set up to automatically kill "ctfmon" when it starts. Maybe I shouldnt do that?
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Active : 03/29/2010 @ 02:22 PM
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There is a way to make most sounds come out of your speakers while the Dragon plays back through your USB or other headset -- sort of.
Just set your Audio playback default device to your speakers before opening any new sound application and then set it back to USB after the new program is up and playing audio through the speakers. Its a pain -- but macros make it easier.
Here is why (I guess). AFAICT, the Dragon's sounds will always come out of whatever is the then-current default sound playback device -- so that's why you generally use USB as the default. Otoh, most other programs will use whatever device was the default when they first start outputting audio. These programs will continue using the device they first hooked into even when you change the default back to USB. (I leave aside the "smart audio" programs like Skype, etc, for which you can set an output device independent of the default device at any time -- providing the other sound device is enabled and you don't have checked the "use only default devices" box.)
So, for instance, I set my audio default device to "speakers" just before starting MediaMonkey and I play some audio (which can be anything from MM and can even be stopped right after the initial sound comes out -- its just to establish a hook into the hardware). Then I switch back to USB for the Dragon. Now, as long as MM remains open (and I can start and stop audio normally once the initial hook to my speakers is established), whenever it is playing sounds, it does so through my speakers while the Dragon uses my USB headset.
Now, there is a trick for app's like web browsers with embedded media players. In the case of Firefox anyway, the hook into an audio device is made just when needed -- but then it is persistent while the media player is still in use (and even if the output is paused or stopped). So, I have to set the speakers as default just before browsing a site like Vimeo, but then, once the hook is made, I don't have to repeat that for any other audio or video content, even on different sites, as long as the media player remains engaged (whether actually playing sounds or not) by at least one tab somewhere in the browser. So the trick is to leave some media site tab open while browsing to new media sites in another tab.
I'm sure this could be clearer -- but just try it and see what works for you.
Ta ta, Philip
PG
DNS 9.5 Pro Gen-Large Vocab, on various high-speed, lots of memory, AMD and Intel-based PCs (home, office, laptops) and Plantronics CS50-USB mics - using local user in default directory that is imported and exported as needed to USB flash drive for portability.
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Philip,
I used to do something similar a number of years ago and your correct, you can get it to work that way albeit not particularly consistent or reliable.
The caveat is that you cannot do it at all in Windows Vista and Windows 7. The default options for playback and recording devices are either or, but not both.
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update on my situation:
chucker, so i tried both your suggestions (renaming mycmd, and when that didnt make any difference, i also tried "repair" via add/remove programs). Neither made any difference... the symptoms are the same: in word i can say 'select sentence' but then it wont read back even if i say 'read that', and in word 'read sentence' doesnt work at all. 'Read line' and 'read paragraph' work fine though.
For what its worth, i also noticed that Dragon seems to think that my word 2007 is a "non standard window", and I also noticed that, when in word, if I select some phrase or word by saying "select xxx", dragon misaligns the selection (doesnt quite visually select the right part), even tho if i then say 'read that' it does read back the correct part.
any other ideas i can try? i'm wondering if nothing short of a full reinstall is going to fix this, tho i wish i had more info on why it happened in the first place...
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Quote:
chucker, so i tried both your suggestions (renaming mycmd, and when that didnt make any difference, i also tried "repair" via add/remove programs). Neither made any difference... the symptoms are the same: in word i can say 'select sentence' but then it wont read back even if i say 'read that', and in word 'read sentence' doesnt work at all. 'Read line' and 'read paragraph' work fine though.
jak2000,
First, there is no "read sentence" command in TTS read back for DNS. Therefore, it's understandable that this doesn't work. You can only read back a selection, but you should be able to select a sentence and read that back. If you say "select sentence" and you say "read selection", does that work?
Quote:
For what its worth, i also noticed that Dragon seems to think that my word 2007 is a "non standard window", and I also noticed that, when in word, if I select some phrase or word by saying "select xxx", dragon misaligns the selection (doesnt quite visually select the right part), even tho if i then say 'read that' it does read back the correct part.
any other ideas i can try? i'm wondering if nothing short of a full reinstall is going to fix this, tho i wish i had more info on why it happened in the first place...
No, if everything that you've tried so far doesn't work, a complete reinstall isn't going to work either. What you can try is the following:
1. Create a new user making sure that you select the correct dictation source and select "None" for initial training. This will give you a brand-new user, pristine, right out-of-the-box. Don't add any custom vocabulary or anything else to it. Keep it just the way it is. It will also set up a new user much faster.
2. Try the read back commands in the new user. Go to the help (Dragon) and search on read that or read back and select "Using text-to-speech". That will give you the whole scoop on this feature.
Doing a complete uninstall and reinstall is a last resort in any case, but if the problem is with your user profile, doing so won't change anything either. The only way to test it is to create a new user as noted above.
As regards Dragon thinking that your Microsoft Word 2007 is a "nonstandard window", that is because you have lost Select-and-Say. Do the following:
First, make sure that DNS is loaded before you open Microsoft Word. If you don't do that, then you will have no Select-and-Say. The only way that Select-and-Say is enabled, if it is working properly, is if Dragon is loaded first and maps (hooks) Microsoft Word.
Second, if the above still results in your getting the error message "dictating into a nonstandard window", then, in Microsoft Word, say "office button"or click the Office button, and then say or click "Word Options". In the Word Options dialog, click or say "Add-Ins". Under the "Active Application Add -ins, you should see "NatSpeak Word Addin". If that isn't there under that heading, go to the of that dialog to the right of "Manage:" The default should be COM Add -ins. Click the Go button. In the ensuing dialog box, you should see the NatSpeak Word Addin listed. If it doesn't have a checkmark in the checkbox, put one there and click "OK". See if you will continue to get the error message when dictating into Microsoft Word. If not, Select-and-Say was successfully enabled. If it still gives you that error message then go back to the Add-Ins option in the Word Options dialog, go to Manage: and select Disabled Items from the drop-down list, then click on the Go button. In the Disabled Items dialog, if the NatSpeak Word Addin is listed, highlight it and click on the Enable button. Test again. If you're still getting the error message, then you may have to remove that item from the COM Add -ins and then manually add it back in. However, before you do that make sure that you write down the path where that add-in is located. Otherwise, you won't know what you're looking for our words located. The file that you're looking for is dgnword.dll and is located in the Program folder where the program files for DNS are installed. Nevertheless, write down the location so that you have an easier time finding it and having to search all over hell and creation for it.
One of the above procedures should reset Select-and-Say for Microsoft Word.
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Success! Thanks chucker :-D
Following your advice, this is what was needed:
--I didnt know that dragon had to be loaded before Word, first of all. Good to know.
--the natspeak word add-in was indeed disabled in Word, and following your instructions I enabled it.
--In Dragon options, under "natural language commands", I needed to have a checkmark next to "enable MS Word commands"
And at that point "select sentence" followed by "read that" works perfectly in Word, and it seems to have also corrected the misaligned selections that I mentioned earlier, and it no longer says that word is a 'non standard' window.
--By the way, I got the impression that one could say "read sentence" directly (rather than, 1. "select sentence", 2. "read that" ) from Linus' second post in this thread, above. If one cannot in fact say "read sentence", then I place that back on my "wishlist" for Dragon! It seems like such an obvious/natural command to give, and a useful one, in Word, too bad it takes 2 steps instead of one. But I guess we get what we need and not what want
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jak2000,
Glad you're back in business.
KnowBrainer is reference to "read sentence" is probably a reference to KnowBrainer itself. Again, it is not built into DNS.
I've made this suggestion to add that to the read back commands. However, my Nuance developer buddies have said that they will take it under consideration, but the likelihood is that "what you see is what you get." That is, making such a change is so low on the totem pole at this point that it is not likely to ever be implemented. Nevertheless, they have recorded but the priority is "D". Priority A’s get done first, priority B's get done second, priority C's get done if they have a good potential for Return on Investment (ROI) and if there's time, priority D's are generally categorized as "when hell freezes over".
It's been submitted and been added to the wish list, but I wouldn't expect to ever see it.
Getting technical support rule #1: When asking questions or describing problems, express yourself as if you were attempting to describe the Mona Lisa to a blind person.
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Quote:
KnowBrainer is reference to "read sentence" is probably a reference to KnowBrainer itself. Again, it is not built into DNS.
Oops, Chuck you are right. Our apologies, we did not realize that these commands were exclusive to KnowBrainer. However, we are surprised these commands aren't included with NaturallySpeaking but we're happy to pitch in Developer ofKnowBrainer 2010 Nuance NaturallySpeakingCertifiedBBBAccredited Speech RecognitionSolutions Provider
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hmmm, guys, i just remembered why i had disabled the natspeak word add-in -- it has a tendency to crash word 2007! I just started seeing this problem again. After a reboot, i loaded up dragon, then word, and opened the file i had been working on yesterday - and word crashed, giving the usual "recover and restart" option.
When i exit dragon, i can open the document just fine in word.
If I disable the natspeak add-in, I can open the document just fine in word.
any thoughts? From searching on the forum I see this is a fairly common issue between dragon 10 and word 2007...
Is my only option to disable the natspeak plug in and use dragonpad? I rather liked working with Dragon directly in Word.
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Quote:
guys, i just remembered why i had disabled the natspeak word add-in -- it has a tendency to crash word 2007! I just started seeing this problem again. After a reboot, i loaded up dragon, then word, and opened the file i had been working on yesterday - and word crashed, giving the usual "recover and restart" option.
When i exit dragon, i can open the document just fine in word.
If I disable the natspeak add-in, I can open the document just fine in word.
any thoughts? From searching on the forum I see this is a fairly common issue between dragon 10 and word 2007...
Is my only option to disable the natspeak plug in and use dragonpad? I rather liked working with Dragon directly in Word.
jak2000,
I don't know where you get the impression that this is a fairly common issue between Dragon 10 and Word 2007, but that simply isn't the case. While you're looking at is people reporting that has a problem. Users who don't have the problem are going to report it and that is the majority of users.
The vast majority of DNS users don't experience this problem. However, there are several possible reasons:
1. The Windows registry entry that enables this option is corrupted.
2. Your DNS install is corrupted.
3. Microsoft Word 2007 needs to be repaired.
To which you can do the following:
1. Close Dragon NaturallySpeaking and Microsoft Word and go to the following location:
C:\Documents and Settings\Chuck\Application Data\Microsoft\Templates\
and delete the file Normal.dotm
Then re-launch DNS with your user profile and reopen Microsoft Word and see if the problem persists. If not, then go to the next option.
2. Run the Microsoft diagnostics for Microsoft Office 2007. If that doesn't work, go to step 3
3. Uninstall and reinstall Microsoft Office 2007, or Microsoft Word if you have only Microsoft Word 2007 installed (standalone).
4. Go to the Windows Control Panel, Add or Remove Programs | Dragon NaturallySpeaking 10 and click on the change button. When the DNS InstallShield wizard is displayed, you have three options: Modify, Repair, and Remove. Choose repair and run it.
5. If #4 it doesn't work, try creating a new user, keeping your old user, and setting your new user up using "None" for initial training and do not add any custom words or move your old mycmds.dat to that user. You want to test with a pure, out-of-the-box, Christine, user profile.
6. If #5 isn't the solution, then, and only as a last resort, completely uninstall DNS 10.1 Preferred via the Windows Control Panel, Add or Remove Programs in the same way as running the repair in #4 above, except choose Remove. Be sure that you export your user profiles before doing this (i.e., Manage Users | Advanced button | Export) and make sure that you do so to a safe location that you can remember. A good place to do this is to a USB thumb drive. Or to another drive if you have one. At any rate export your user profiles first. If necessary, exported to your desktop since it is only going to be a temporary location and since you can find it easily when it's necessary to import it.
Also, uninstalling in this manner will preserve your activations, which is important, so make sure that you are connected to the Internet when performing this uninstall process. Otherwise, you will lose one of your activations.
Download, if you don't have it, the DNS 10 remove utility (DNS10remover.exe) and run it so that you completely remove all references to DNS 10 from your system. Note that this is one of the reasons for exporting your user profile(s) because the remove utility deletes everything. It won't, however, delete your exported user profile. You can find the remove utility at the following location:
Reinstall Dragon NaturallySpeaking 10.1 Preferred and Import your exported user profile(s) (i.e., Manage Users | Advanced button | Import). Note that you will have to search for your exported user profile, which you should have saved on your desktop. Under normal conditions, this dialog will remember where you exported your user profiles. However, once you uninstall DNS and run the remover utility, that information is lost to DNS. Just keep this in mind FYI.
Be sure that you follow each of the steps above in the order in which I have presented them. There in the order from simplest to most complex, as well as the order that you should perform them.
Also, be sure that you test after each one. It won't make much sense to you if you perform all of the above steps and the problem is resolved because you won't know which step resolved it in case it happens again.
If the problem persists despite taking all of the above steps, let us know. At the same time if any one of them resolves the problem, also let us know so that we can document it for future reference. Many of the solutions to some of the problems that users have had over time get lost in the vast universe of information stored on this forum, and many of these questions are asked over and over again. I like to keep a written record of those solutions that seem to work for specific problems, such as yours.
In the interim, attach a copy of your Dragon log so that we can review it. The Dragon log often points to directions that indicate the source of the problem. That's not a guarantee, but it's generally the most viable source for that type of information.
The only thing that you need to remember is that you cannot attach your Dragon log as Dragon.log, with its original extension, you need to change the extension to *.txt so that what you are uploading is Dragon.txt. Be sure that you understand this because if you upload your Dragon log as Dragon.log, no one will be able to review it. The Dragon log is a standard ASCII/ANSI text file so saving it and attaching it as Dragon.txt will let everybody see what's happening with your user and your DNS installation. Also, don't post parts of your Dragon log. I need to see the entire log with all of the sessions from start to finish. Extracting portions of the Dragon log is useless. It's the entire log that shows the relationship between everything that is occurring over several sessions that helps to identify potential causes of problems with DNS. Extracting portions of the Dragon log is like taking the engine out of your car and then expecting to drive to Disney World. It doesn't get you to first base. So, please, entire Dragon log upload it as Dragon.txt.
Logic 101: Post Hoc fallacy - Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc: After the fact, therefore because of the fact. The general assumption that a consequent event or observation maintains an absolute cause and effect relationship to its precedent is false on its face. While precedent and consequent events or observations may have a direct cause and effect relationships, the absolute assumption of such is invalid, and therefore false.
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thanks again for the details.
Before i saw your reply, i was planning a hard drive upgrade on my laptop. So I did that last night actually. In the process, the problem has fixed itself!
basically I:
-exported my user profile
-uninstalled dragon 10 while connected to the internet (so as to get my activation credit back)
-rebooted, and ran the dragon remover tool anyway. rebooted.
-then i cloned my hard drive to the new drive
-swapped the drives
-reinstalled dragon, activated it
-imported my old user profile.
Everything works, and even the word crashing issue has gone away for now.
So we'll see what happens as I use it I guess. If the problem reappears I'll follow your other suggestions above.
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We thought that we should point out that although we may not have the same problem, we have a similar issue in that some of our Microsoft Word 2007 documents and Outlook e-mail 2007 messages cause Word and Outlook to crash and recover in just the same manner. Example: If we attempt to respond to a PayPal e-mail, we might have 3 or 4 seconds before Outlook crashes and recovers and if we reattempt to respond to the e-mail message, Outlook will reward us by crashing faster and we will have to resort to physically launching it. We've experienced this problem for a long time but recently, our overpriced Intel solid-state 160 Gb hard drive decided to erase around 25% of its folders and files; rendering it useless. The drive was sent off to Intel to dissect but obviously we couldn't wait and replaced it with a new identical solid-state drive because we had such good luck the 1st time .
We reinstalled Microsoft office, Medical 10.1 and the rest of our work tools. We don't have a problem with the hard drive, we couldn't have a very cluttered registry at this point and it seems highly unlikely that the Microsoft Word normal.dot file is corrupted because we've only been running our computer for a couple of days. The reason why we're mentioning this is because this is equivalent to moving to a brand-new computer that has exactly the same problems as our previous computer. This may be an uncommon problem but we've heard several people mention it and we've now replicated it on the equivalence of 2 separate computers so in our opinion, this is something that Nuance should take a closer look at. Developer ofKnowBrainer 2010 Nuance NaturallySpeakingCertifiedBBBAccredited Speech RecognitionSolutions Provider
Posted : Monday 03/08/2010 08:18 PM 
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