Dear Chuck and the other sage techies at Knowbrainer,

With your  advice a year ago I purchased a Dell XPS 15 with a 4 core 8 thread 8 MB L3 cache Intel I-7-2820QM processor.  Could not be happier with the results with DNS 11. 

But the thing weighs a ton and is not the most lap friendly and has dreadful battery life.   I am looking at 14" ultrabooks or smaller 14" laptops.   Lenovo ideapad Y480 is  the only 14" laptop ($899) with an Ivy Bridge quad core processor i7-3610-QM(8 threads, 6MB L3 cache). It has some awful reviews and a purportedly sub-par screen.

Most of the ultrabooks at present under $1000, like the Dell XPS 14z or the Asus U47 from Best Buy still have Sandy Bridge dual core processors with at best 4 MB of L3 cache (or like most, 3 MB of L3). With 8 MB of RAM and an Intel Core I7 2640M we've got 4 MB of L3 Cache in the XPS 14z and Asus U47 at around $800.  [Phil notes below that this is his low threshold for acceptable].

Most of the buzz around Ivy Bridge that I've seen only promises dual core processors for 14" Ultrabooks and laptops.  xotic pc offers Asus U47VC-D-51 with Ivy Bridge i5-3210M (2 cores, 3 MB L3 cache). Chuck is right below that quad core ivy bridge i7's are going to cost us.

ANYONE: is there any reason to prefer this 3rd Gen Ivy Bridge dual core i-5 with 3 MB L3 to the 2nd Gen i7 with 4MB L3 Cache?  

So should I wait for Ivy Bridge quad core or am I dreaming?  

Like I said, I have my dream machine, and am looking for a more portable and cheaper second fiddle.  Best, Tom

-------------------------
DNS 11 Premium, Core2 Quad Q9400 4 GB Ram

Tom,

Ultrabooks with the third-generation Ivy Bridge processors, which are a distinct advantage over second generation Sandy Bridge processors, are available, but you have to search for them. They're not easily identifiable and it isn't easy to locate them. The problem with Ultrabooks currently is that there limited to 4 GB of RAM.

I would wait until the end of the summer as more Ultrabooks with Ivy Bridge processors will be being released between now and then. Also, most of the manufacturers of RAM are starting to put out DDR3 RAM that has 8 GB on a single RAM chip. Most of the current offerings in this regard are for desktop processors. However, the whole scene is changing relative to Ultrabooks and Ivy Bridge. However, Ivy Bridge processors have only just been released, and primarily for the desktop systems. Laptop systems are lagging behind, specifically Ultrabooks. It's just a question of patience. Also, you want to make sure that whatever you buy as regards and Ultrabook is basically future proof. God only knows what the next release of Dragon NaturallySpeaking is going to due to required or recommended system resources. If you get overly anxious, it's very possible that you could end up buying a pig in a poke. Also, don't expect the more powerful Ivy Bridge based Ultrabooks to be cheap. The chip is relatively inexpensive, but the rest of the hardware will make it anywhere between $1200 and $1800 depending upon what you want to go with. The Ultrabooks will be well worth it in their more powerful formats, but it's too soon for the kind of Ultrabooks that will do well with Dragon NaturallySpeaking (i.e., Ivy Bridge).

Chuck

Education is when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get if you don't. - Pete Seeger

-------------------------

Chuck, et. al.

Thanks for clearing up the clouds of confusion for so many of us.

I am suspending the search on your recommendation until the end of summer

Still hoping under $1000 may be adequate. Portability and affordability are as important as DNS "optimal" performance.

8 MB RAM is of course a given.

I do get the point about the future of DNS, but I could be happy on this second fiddle sticking with DNS 11 for the next five years. [And am experimenting with Medium size vocabulary in Bestmatch IV].

Again, does anyone think the Ivy Bridge DUAL core processors that seem likely to be populating the 14" Ultrabooks (2 cores, 4 threads, 3, 4, 6 MB L3 Cache) will perform at appreciably better levels than the Sandy Bridge i7 dual core processors with the same cores and threads?  How significant is the advantage and why (not getting too technical).

The currently available Intel® Coretm i7-2640M Processor (2 cores, 4 threads, 4 MB L3) on the Asus U47, IF ADEQUATE, may be better suited on a sleeker all-round machine for my purposes than even the IdeaPad Y 480 with its Ivy bridge quad core and bad rep.   

I refer to Chuck's rule of thumb from a year ago. Any revision?

"L3 cache is sufficient at 4 MB, but 3 MB is adequate, albeit just adequate. The ideal amount of L3 cache is 8 MB (Coretm i processors with four cores)."

Should I avoid Ivy Bridge dual core processors as well as Sandy Bridge dual core? And is 4 MB of L3 cache still "sufficient" (better than "adequate") on dual cores, which are bound to come down even further in price?

When people on the forum see good deals on Ultrabooks, please inform! 

Many thanks, Tom

-------------------------
DNS 11 Premium, Core2 Quad Q9400 4 GB Ram

I have a 2 lb i7-2640M (4 MB L3) machine with 8 GB of RAM (Panasonic J10 Japanese import) and an SSD. It is my travel machine and quite acceptable to me for email, basic word processing and voice control of the desktop. My main workstation is an overclocked hex core i7-3960x so I do not make the comparison lightly. However, the i7-2640M is the least powerful processor I can stand for actually getting something done with DNS but other folks will swear by less powerful machines. If you need a small machine now, the Dell with the i7-2640M SHOULD be adequate. However, my company used to buy almost all Dell but we have had bad luck on the quality from our recent purchases.

The interesting thing about the i7-2640M is that its thermal dissipation rating is 35 watts. the new ivy bridge i7-3612QM is also rated at 35 watts but is a quad core with 6MB L3 cache. Even-though the clock is some what lower than the i7-2640M the added cache and to a lesser extent the two extra cores will likely make for a noticeable performance improvement with basic DNS workloads. I'm just waiting now for the lightweight Japanese models to refresh so I can try it out. The big drawback is that those machines are super expensive.
Phil Schaadt

-------------------------
DNS12 Pro BM V Large Vocabulary plus KB or Voice Computer running Win7 64 bit machines with i7-2640M to i7-3960x and i7-3770K processors plus a Sony VAIO Windows 8 machine. DBX Audio Gate with Allen&Heath mixer/USB Audio; Andrea PureAudio USB  usually with Airline 77 or Audio-Technica but also Sennheiser MD431 II, theBoom, et. al.

Thank you Phil.

The only 14" or smaller machine under $1000 coming in with an Ivy Bridge quad core i7-3612QM (6MB L3 cache) other than the Lenovo Y490 is the Lenovo ThinkPad Edge at $833.  I'm leaning to Asus.

Asus through xotic pc can be configured with a 750 G Hard drive (7200 rpm) AND a small SSD.  

Anyone think SSD is a great advantage for DNS that might obviate the need for pricey quad core processors? 

Again, will the Ivy Bridge dual core have any advantage over the Sandy Bridge, if the same cores, threads and smart cache apply (possible great deals here on the 2 core, 4 thread, 4MB L3 Cache machines)?

xoticpc is offering the new Asus U47 with an Ivy Bridge i5 3210M (2 cores and 3 MB L3) for $843.  Phil, I am not sure you would not think this sub par even though 3rd generation.

They also offer the Asus U46 with a Sandy Bridge i7 2670QM for $1032.  4 cores 6 MB L3.  Unless there is any advantage to the Ivy Bridge, here's the least expensive non-Lenovo machine with quad core and 8MB of RAM. 

Somehow I am preferring Asus to Lenovo, Taiwan to China.

No one as yet is offering Ultrabooks with more than 4MB of RAM.  Will be checking back hoping others are in the same boat.

Cheers, Tom

 

 

-------------------------
DNS 11 Premium, Core2 Quad Q9400 4 GB Ram

Tom,

The advice that I gave you originally still holds. WAIT!!!

When the time is right and I see where the Ultrabook technology is going and what options are going to be available, I'll let you know. However, getting antsy and looking for cut-rate solutions is not the answer. I know, we all get antsy from time to time and want what we want now. The market for ultra books is not expanded sufficiently yet and won't at least until November or December. It may not even expand fully until next year.

The best advice that I can give you is keep your wallet in your pocket. Otherwise, as you note from the Lenovo bad press, you'll end up buying a pig in a poke. When the time is right, I'll know it, and I'll tell you. Now is not the time to consider Ultrabooks, Ivy Bridge or otherwise.

Chuck

Be careful what you ask for. What you get might not be what you expect, or want. - Aesop (620 BC - 700 BC)

-------------------------

Just to contradict the advice in this thread, I'm the guy who couldn't keep my, ahem, wallet, in my pants. I bought the 2.0 Ghz MacBook Air with Ivy Bridge (4 MB L3 cache) and 8 GB of RAM. While not strictly an Ultrabook (because Windows isn't its primary OS), and certainly a budget buster, this thing should serve me well for a few years. 

 

That said, waiting is a good idea. By next year, Ultrabooks will probably come standard with 8 GB of RAM and 256 GB solid state drives, and be $100 cheaper than this year's models.

-------------------------

Eric Wright At work: DNS 12 Pro. At home: DNS 11.5 Pro,  KnowBrainer 2011, and Utter Command by RedStart Systems; Dragon Dictate 3 for Mac

 

Appetite for Dictation - My Blog

Eric,

The system that you bought falls within what I would consider acceptable, albeit expensive, relative to Ultrabooks. For all practical purposes, the MacBook Air is an Ultrabook. You may have paid through the nose for it (i.e., Apple does that to you because they don't believe in not taking you to the cleaners cost wise), but, for all practical purposes, the specifications of your MacBook air are what I would look for before buying any Ultrabook.

So, you didn't really go against my advice, except possibly in terms of cost. Nonetheless, anyone wishing to stay with the PC should wait. I built a new system with the Ivy Bridge 3770K Core™ i7 with all the bells and whistles, including 32 GB of 1866 MHz RAM. With DNS 11.5 it's faster than a bat out of hell. However, the reason that I bought it was because when they come out with the Ivy Bridge Extreme processor, which is what I really want and which won't be out until October or so, all I have to do is replace the processor. So, what I did was cost-effective because it gives me better results than any other system that I currently have and the upgrade is just a matter of replacing the chip. I built the basic banana boat. All I have to do now is wait for the 5000 hp gas turbine engine. That way, I'll have enough money left over to get the right Ultrabook when I see it. Don't need it now.

Chuck

"Many of the things you can count, don't count. Many of the things you can't count, really count." Albert Einstein

-------------------------

Chuck and Eric,
Now I get to ask you to wait, or at least clarify! I am going to wait, but are you sure the Air meets your requirements, Chuck?

Eric, if you bought a MacBook Pro, you may be in the park as I understand Chuck, but the Air does no better than Dell xps 14 and Lenovo U410 already available, and they all come in under what I take are Chuck's optimal specs, which include the Ivy Bridge quad core i7 with 6-8MB L3 cache, and at least 8 GB RAM. Or Chuck, are you happy with a dual core i7 with only 4MB L3? Lenovo's Ideapad U410 seems to have identical specs to Eric's Air, at $999.

These are Apple's best specs on the $1499 MacBook Air today:
They don't tell you which core i7, but I don't think the dual cores they offer have any more than 4 threads and 4 MB L3 Cache,
2.0GHz Intel Dual-Core Core i7, Turbo Boost up to 3.2GHz [Why so secretive Apple?]
8GB 1600MHz DDR3L SDRAM [Add $100.00] (yes, Chuck, most ultrabooks only have 4 GB RAM)

Here are the specs on the $2700 15" MacBook Pro, with add-ons = $3150
2.7GHz Quad-core Intel Core i7, Turbo Boost up to 3.7GHz [Add $250.00] 6MB L3 cache [no 8?] [Chuck, isn't this your minimum? It is Phil's, see above]
16GB 1600MHz DDR3L SDRAM [Add $200.00]
Weight: 5.6 pounds (2.56 kg)

Regular weight laptops from Lenovo and Sony, though around 5 lb. and partially made of plastic, can be had for around $1000, comparable to all features of the MacBook PRO, no way as solid or pretty, but they offer identical hardware and weight, if not thickness.
Am I missing something?
Lenovo Thinkpad Edge, $850 Intel Core i7-3612QM Processor (6MB Cache, 2.10GHz) 8 GB RAM [Our IT people just rejected these for students as not sturdy enough]
Vaio 14" E series premium also has 3rd gen Intel® Coretm i7-3612QM quad-core processor (2.10GHz / 3.10GHz with Turbo Boost) and 16GB RAM for $1009 and weighs same as PRO (though thicker) and has 1600 resolution option.

Chuck, you are right about all or most "ultrabooks," but I would not include the MacBook Air, unless I'm missing something.

Most expensive Dell xps 13 and 14 have 3rd Generation Intel® Coretm i7-3517U processor (4M Cache, up to 3.0 GHz) and yes, xps 13 has only 4 MB RAM so far but 14 has 8. So the XPS 14 comes in as an ultrabook for $1499, comparable to Air, but still no Ivy Bridge Quad core.
Best, Tom

P.S. With my recovery, I can type half the time these days. But the key travel on ultrabooks seems very shallow. I wonder if anyone has thoughts on keyboards that are actually comfortable to type on? These get awfully shallow. Thanks, Tom


-------------------------
DNS 11 Premium, Core2 Quad Q9400 4 GB Ram

Just checked again.  Still nothing out there.  Ultrabooks now standard with 8mb RAM but the new Lenovo T series T430u, a true ultrabook, "coming soon," still only sports the i7 3517U (4MB L3 cache like the MacBook Air) and tops out at 8MB RAM (T430s now has 16 MB RAM but Crucial doesn't seem to want to supply it).  

So we are still looking at fatter and more plastic machines around 5 lb. that provide up to 16MB RAM and i7 quad core processors up to i7 3612QM (6MB  L3) (Lenovo, Sony, HP -- they all have shallow crappy keyboards except the Lenovo, and trackpads that are singularly unresponsive).  

Another forum explained that the T430's thermal specs cannot acccomodate the faster ones, topping out like most ultrabooks at i7 3520M. Lenovo T530 has a 3820QM but way too heavy.

I have to go to Copenhagen in October and don't want to take 7 lbs of laptop.

But I can wait until next year.  There is just no buzz I am hearing on the windows machines.

 Chuck or anyone?  Phil, is your new Panasonic from Japan in the park?

I am tempted to get the MacBook Pro but they are heavy and $2700 even with the educational discount.

-------------------------
DNS 11 Premium, Core2 Quad Q9400 4 GB Ram

Do Windows 8 and touch screen machines and DNS 12 complicate this scenario?

Still no ultrabook, touchscreen or not, in the quadcore i7 category, though the HP Spectre XT Ultrabook comes close with a dual core i7 with 4mb L3 cache, maxing out at 8MB RAM (unlike the cheaper ENVY 14, which maxes at a core i5 and 16MB RAM).

Sony E series custom 14" touch screen with i7 3612QM and 16 MB of RAM now sells for $938 (but the screen is definitely dimmer than other laptops.

Chuck, are you still looking to next year?
Many thanks, TJ

-------------------------
DNS 11 Premium, Core2 Quad Q9400 4 GB Ram

TJ,

Things are getting better. You can now get a Lenovo Twist Ultrabook with the Core™ i7 (dual core not quad core) 3517U that looks pretty good, comes with 8 GB of RAM, has a twist screen so that it can be used line is a laptop or tablet, has a touchscreen (don't only 12.5 in.), but weighs less than 3.5 pounds. Unfortunately, if you want to hook this up to an external monitor, it can only be done through its mini HDMI port (i.e., no VGA output). It's not quite where I want it yet but it's close. Don't mistake the Ultrabook that I'm looking for with the next model down which will only support 4 GB of RAM. This is the next level up, not too expensive (i.e., under $1000 right now if you get it before Christmas), but even it only supports a maximum of 8 GB of RAM. If you're looking for a lightweight, Ultrabook, solution that will function reasonably well with DNS 12 and give you all the advantages of a tablet plus touchscreen capabilities with Windows 8, and you don't mind putting up with the smaller screen, this may be the one you're looking for.

Chuck

"Good enough never is." - Debbi Fields: founder of Mrs. Fields Bakeries

-------------------------

Yes, thanks, Chuck, and everyone:

(My thoughts go out to you and all my friends on the shore where I grew up (Manasquan) surfing and discovering the wonders of nature under the boardwalks of Sea Girt and Spring Lake). I'll make it back to visit and there will always be a shore, we are dealing with many of the same issues down here in NC re: what to keep and what to yield.

I saw the Twist and almost jumped on a Staples deal, but was reading all the quad core discussions here and holding out. It is a solid, responsive machine, but the hinge concerns me just a little, and the smaller screen size. Mainly I'm now thinking that soon there will be a relatively light quad core and 16MB 14" laptop coming up with a touch screen (can't see doing Windows 8 without one) I think it much better than the Lenovo Yoga whose screen wobbles terribly and folds over, exposing the keyboard (uncomfortable to handle).(though the resolution is better, the disk maxes out at 128GB). Microsoft focus grouped the touch screen laptop idea and many people took to it, as did I in the store.

I like the 14" HP Envy -- a more solid larger screen than the Lenovos, just as bright as the Twist, but they don't have an i7 yet and they are a pound heavier. Also hoping to see the HP Spectre XT 15" at the same weight (4.7 lb.) as the ENVY, but same processor and memory as the Lenovo Twist and MacBook Air (i7 dual and 8MB RAM), and a 1080p screen, but not cheap at $1400. But people should keep in mind you also get a suite of video and photo editing software and double the warranty.

Obviously this is evolving all very quickly and I may yet see a quad core in a small enough light enough touch screen.
If anyone finds it, just post! Gratified to see all the "views" on this one. Thanks, Tom

-------------------------
DNS 11 Premium, Core2 Quad Q9400 4 GB Ram

Is it true that I will get better DNS operation with a PC as opposed to a MAC?
I'm on the verge of buying a computer just for DNS use.
Can buy either MAC or DNS with i7 L3 8RAM.
My other computers are MACs. But I am willing to go PC if I will get better and easier DNS use out of it, since this compute will be for DNS only.
So should i be looking at a PC or MAC for DNS use?
Any advice is appreciated.

-------------------------

Trope

Trope,

These are the kinds of questions that are very difficult to answer. The reason is that there are two sides to the coin: on the one hand it's personal likes and dislikes, and on the other hand it's system specs.

If you like MacBooks and you understand how to set them up properly and efficiently, as well as maintain them, for using Dragon NaturallySpeaking on a Windows virtual partition, then Apple has CPU configurations that meet the necessary requirements for good performance and accuracy using DNS. However, if you're not a Mac enthusiast and you're not familiar with how to set one up, it can be a real pain in the butt (relatively high learning curve). On the other hand, it's much easier to set up a standard Windows-based PC laptop for DNS. In other words, the answer to your question is six of one, half a dozen of the other. My personal preference is to go with the standard PC (laptop) and get the best one that you can afford and that meets the optimal specifications (Core™ i7 quad core/8 thread [hyperthreading], 16 GB of RAM 1333 MHz or better, and either a 256 GB/512 GB SSD drive or a 500 MB-1 TB SATA III hard drive). Nevertheless, that's my personal preference and I'm very picky about backing off on those specs. No one can recommend what you should or shouldn't do, we can only give you a set of guidelines. You, in the end, have to make the decision for yourself.

For example, take a look at the 8 GB version of the Lenovo Multi-Touch Twist. It's a tablet, it's a PC, and it has adequate CPU and RAM specifications for working with DNS 12 via Windows 8. It's light, the screen twists so that you can lay down on the keyboard and use it like a tablet. It has a small screen but bigger than Phil's Panasonic J10, it's not any heavier, it can be connected to an external screen in any one of two different ways, and it's basically a nice little machine for travel and use with DNS only. It also has a touchscreen for use with Windows 8, which Phil's Panasonic doesn't. You can get it for under $1200. Granted, it doesn't have an internal CD/DVD RW drive, but you don't need the expensive Lenovo model. Also, you do need some extra cables if you want to hook it up to an external monitor. But I can tell you from my own personal experience, I like it. It works for me for travel purposes and demonstrations.

There will be others coming down the pike in the next few months. You will always be caught in the black hole of technology advancement. That being that whatever you buy today will be out of date in four months. This is why it's so important to look at personal preferences and needs. Otherwise, you'll be waiting forever ad infinitum.

Chuck

Almost doesn't count except in horseshoes and grenades.

-------------------------

I was also wondering about that with Macs. Must you run DNS on a Windows platform, rather than Lion?
Last time I checked, the MacBook Pro was the only one with the quad core i7 option and 16MB of RAM.

Lenovo X1 Carbon just released with touch screen, which for me is a great compliment, but even that has a dual core i7 with 4MBL3 and no more than 8MB RAM. Glad to hear that is considered enough and the twist works for you Chuck, because it is half as much as the X1 carbon!

Lots of Windows machines have the quad core now if you are willing to go above ultrabook specifications and 14". For me I'll probably go with a Twist or X1 after I see some price movement or maybe another, because that 14" real estate and 1600x900 screen will allow some more serious writing.

Maybe they will improve the specs on the Acer M4 Aspire because that is the lowest priced touch screen but it doesn't touch the lower threshold set by Chuck. HP Spectre XT Touch also looks good with a fast enough processor and touch.

I'm thinking, "why would anyone buy Windows 8 without touch"? But they are selling those machines. Maybe stick with Windows 7 if you don't need or want a touch screen.
Good Luck! TJ

-------------------------
DNS 11 Premium, Core2 Quad Q9400 4 GB Ram

Tom,

Don't wait too long with Lenovo because their prices are going to go up after January 1 and they're not likely to come back down to the current levels.

Here's why I like the Lenovo MultiTouch Twist:

1. As small as the screen is (12.5" W HD (1366 x 768) LED Backlight), have you tried working with a laptop that has a 17.3 inch screen on a plane, particularly if you are traveling in coach? When I'm at home, I use it attached to a 27 inch LG LED monitor. However, when I'm traveling I want it as small as I can get it.

2. Even though it only has 8 GB of RAM and a Core™ i7 3517U (Ivy Bridge, dual core/4 thread with hyperthreading), I use it with DNS 12 Professional and BestMatch IV General-Large. Speech to text (dictation to transcription) is still virtually instantaneous. I don't need BestMatch V because I found that BestMatch IV gets up to speed and becomes almost as accurate as BestMatch V in a very short period of time. The only advantage of BestMatch V, in terms of accuracy, is that it is slightly more accurate on certain terms, words, and utterances. However, after about two days of use making corrections and training such if necessary, the difference between BestMatch IV and BestMatch V shrinks considerably.

3. If you don't have to go with an Ultrabook like the Lenovo MultiTouch Twist right away, you can wait in there will probably be more and better options around April of next year. However, you still going to get caught in the technology black hole. That is, once you get sucked in, what you purchase will be out of date within 4 to 6 months. In other words, as Herbert Hoover says: "About the time we can make the ends meet, somebody moves the ends."

The bottom line is that what I was trying to say in previous posts is that it's almost impossible to make a specific recommendation because most of the factors involved, aside from specs that will work with DNS 12 effectively, no one can understand your personal preferences and/or needs. That's a choice only you can make. I can only speak for myself. I considered the Lenovo X1 Carbon and I decided that the Lenovo MultiTouch Twist once a more viable option for my needs. So, I've already taken the plunge into the technology black hole and I went in there with my eyes wide open knowing full well that there will be something better down the road in the first and/or second quarter of next year. I needed it now so I'm willing to give up the ghost to have what I need. Nevertheless, it works just fine using DNS 12 Professional and VoiceComputer 12 using BestMatch IV General-Large. No latency and more than adequate accuracy. From time to time, I also use KnowBrainer 2012 and when I combined that with VoiceComputer and DNS professional, there is still no latency using BestMatch IV General-Large.

Just my $.02 worth.

Chuck

"Better a diamond with a flaw than a pebble without one." - Chinese Proverb

-------------------------

While I agree with Chuck on most of his points, the 1366x768 screen is a dealbreaker for me. You might consider the T430s as an alternative, though I would stick with Win7 if you go that route.

For non-U-series CPUs and a convertible design, the X230T is a good option, though it's still limited to 1366x768.

If you go with Lenovo, try using one of these links to get an extra discount:

Link1

Link2

-------------------------

Tony Fiset
Speech Recognition Solutions 

Thanks for all the info Chuck. I just got to see another Twist and was impressed. Would it be better to go with the 500GB hard disk or is 128GB SSD going to be adequate and faster for use with my external hard drive? Best, Tom

-------------------------
DNS 11 Premium, Core2 Quad Q9400 4 GB Ram

Tom,

It would be better to go with the 500 GB hard disk for one basic reason. I recently had a client who had replaced his 750 GB SATA hard drive in his laptop with a 148 GB SSD thinking that was the way to go. Unfortunately, when he contacted me indicating that he was having all kinds of problems with Dragon and VoiceComputer, I discovered that he only had 1.30 GB left of hard drive space. It would certainly be better to go with an SSD drive, but 128 GB is simply too small. You need a minimum of 256 GB. I would go with the 500 GB hard drive for now and replace it with a 256 GB or better SSD down the road. The only thing the SSD will give you is faster load times. Dragon runs in memory even though it does occasionally write to the hard drive when updating itself.

I would be more concerned about hard drive space than hard drive speed in this case.

Chuck

Almost doesn't count except in horseshoes and grenades.

-------------------------

FWIW, I store nearly all multimedia files on a networked drive, and most "work" files are synced in the cloud, so I have very little local storage needs. I'm currently using a 120GB SSD divided into two partitions (Win7 + Win8) and it's working OK for my use. I'll probably dump the Win8 partition just because I don't use it, and having the extra space would be nice, but not necessary. Since you mentioned you are using an external drive as well, 128GB might be fine.

That being said, the Twist configuration on Lenovo.com includes a 24GB SSD cache drive to augment the 500GB drive, so you get most of the benefits of both options - though with an Ultraportable, I'd rather have an SSD that won't be damaged if I drop it.

-------------------------

Tony Fiset
Speech Recognition Solutions 

Tony,

Unfortunately, not everyone works the way that you do. I just finished working with three clients who have SSD's of 148 GB or less. They have all run out of space. In addition, once you get to about 85% used space on an SSD, you can start running into problems. Yes, it's expensive, but with the work that I have to do I have a 512 GB SSD. If I were using 120 or a 128 GB SSD, I would've been in deep you know what many months ago. I'm already at 50% (262 GB) of used space on that drive and I'm only using the laptop for demonstrations with a few utilities and Microsoft Office 2010 64-bit, Windows 8, VoiceComputer, and KnowBrainer 2012. I never, ever recommend anything less than a 256 GB SSD.

Besides, I have a Lenovo MultiTouch Twist and I bought it with the 500 GB SATA drive and 8 GB of RAM. The 24 GB SSD cache drive is all you need for fast boot up. Adding a 128 GB SSD to that won't make anything any faster. Also, even though the CPU on this system is an Ivy Bridge Coretm i7 (dual core) 3517U, it's more than sufficient for use with DNS 12, and, if you run into any snags using BestMatch V, you can always switch to BestMatch IV and get extremely snappy response as well as overall accuracy almost as good as BestMatch V.

Chuck

"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But in practice, there is." - Yogi Berra



-------------------------

Chuck:

Thank you as always for wonderful advice. FYI I just bought the brand new Lenovo IdeaPad Yoga 13. The model I bough has the same memory and processor, 8 GB of RAM and i7 3517U, as the Lenovo MultiTouch Twist. But I chose it because it is much thinner and has that slim racy look I believe will impress my high-tech clients. And I owned a Fujitsu convertible very similar to the Twist a few years ago. To my thinking the Yoga converts in a much better way, simply folding back on two hinges rather than the farily complicated fragile single twist hinge. I am always on planes etc so my laptops have a hard life and nedless to say I managed to break the Fujitsu a little after it went out of warantee....  This Yoga only has a 250 GB hard disk but I feel this is enough as I now have GoToMyPc and can grab an old file from the office if I need it unexpectdlly.

I will let you kn inow how it goes when it has arrived.

-------------------------

-- Julian

Julian Nott www.NOTT.com DNS 12 Premium KnowBrainer 2012 Windows 7 16 8GB memory Ivy Bridge i7-3770K

Julian,

"... Much thinner..."? The difference is only 1/10 of an inch between yours and mine. That's not only not "much thinner" but it's almost imperceptibly thinner than the MultiTouch Twist. Yours is .67 inches and the multi-twist is .77 inches. Besides, I prefer to be able to totally twist and flip the screen over and lay it down flat on top of the keyboard if I want use it as a touchscreen tablet. I believe that the IdeaPad Yoga 13 can't be laid completely flat.

Nonetheless, I would be very curious as to your results compared to mine with DNS 12.

Chuck

"Good enough never is." - Debbi Fields: founder of Mrs. Fields Bakeries

-------------------------

There is something wrong here. I looked at what I took to be the MultiTouch Twist in Frys and compared it directly to the Yoga. There was a big difference between the thickness of the two computers I looked at. I took several photographs but I dumped them when I placed the order.

The Yoga does fold completely flat. But in that position the keyboard keys are exposed on the lower side, somewht more liable to get damaged. But you trade that for what I see as the more reliable, stronger hinge arrangement.

I'll let you know how it goes but it would seem reasonable to expect that the performance would be more or less identical running DNS.





-------------------------

-- Julian

Julian Nott www.NOTT.com DNS 12 Premium KnowBrainer 2012 Windows 7 16 8GB memory Ivy Bridge i7-3770K

Julian,

The technical specifications for the Lenovo Multitouch Twist that I have is that it is .77 in. So, I folded flat and took out a ruler and measured it. It is .77 in. exactly. Unfortunately, I don't have the Yoga to look at and measure unless I were to go down to Staples, which is the only current retail outlet near me that has both, but the difference between .67 in. and .77 in. is 1/10 of an inch. Regardless, and I don't think it's worth arguing the case anyway, the twist hinge is quite solid. Nevertheless, I wouldn't want to drop either. As regards the Yoga, I don't want the keyboard exposed when I fold the screen down flat.

Besides, I don't find that, when I'm giving demonstrations, the difference between the two makes any difference. I'm demonstrating software, not hardware and I get a lot of compliments on the utility of the Multitouch Twist anyway, but it detracts from what you're trying to do when you have to engage in a discussion of "that's cool, yada yada yada".

Both are pretty slick. However, for me the bottom line is performance vs. parading my tablet down the glamour runway.

Chuck

"Good enough never is." - Debbi Fields: founder of Mrs. Fields Bakeries

-------------------------

Thank you for the information. Obviously I was not looking at the current Twist model, if I was looking at a Twist after all! You made me think about canceling my order but I decided to stick with the Yoga Thanks as always for outstanding advice.

-------------------------

-- Julian

Julian Nott www.NOTT.com DNS 12 Premium KnowBrainer 2012 Windows 7 16 8GB memory Ivy Bridge i7-3770K

Lenovo Twist arriving today. Much delayed from Shanghai!
Identical to yours, Chuck, with i7 and 8 GB RAM.
I just upgraded to DNS 12 Premium. Some problems with latency after upgrading the 11.5 user file on my other office computer (seems slower).
I wonder if it is best to do a clean new user file and training, and as Chuck suggests, begin with BestMatch IV General Large.
Thanks to all who contributed to this forum.
Tom

-------------------------
DNS 11 Premium, Core2 Quad Q9400 4 GB Ram

Tom,

I know how BestMatch IV will work under DNS 12. It works exceedingly well. However, since you're using DNS 12 Premium, or will be, my suggestion would be to try creating a new user using BestMatch V (start with the Medium vocabulary, which is the default) and see how well it works. I discovered something quirky about BestMatch V in that, over time, it started to slow down. However, I had a problem and had to do a complete restore, after which BestMatch V was performing quite admirably on my Lenovo MultiTouch Twist. I even have it set to BestMatch V General-Large. However, one of things I did do to get it to perform just a tad better was to move the Speed vs. Accuracy slider all the way to "Fastest Response". I'm still experimenting with at to see how well it works in terms of both performance (speed) and accuracy. Because my previous experience resulted in a slowdown after a period of time, I'll have to wait for some time to see what happens to this restored profile. So far so good and I'm even using Advanced Scripting commands and VoiceComputer, which generally tends to slow BestMatch V down a tad. Again, so far so good and at this point I'm not completely sure why.

However, if you can't get BestMatch V to perform adequately for you on your Twist, then create a BestMatch IV user profile. However, you should basically have no problems with BestMatch V unless you add something like KnowBrainer or VoiceComputer. By itself, premium only allows you to create Text and Graphics macros. So, you shouldn't experience any latency with BestMatch V. Additionally, I would keep the Speed vs. Accuracy slider with the Medium vocabulary set to 50%, which is the default.

Let me know how you make out.

Chuck

"Many of the things you can count, don't count. Many of the things you can't count, really count." Albert Einstein

-------------------------