KnowBrainer Speech Recognition
Decrease font size
Increase font size
Topic Title: Correcting the "one" problem retroactively
Topic Summary:
Created On: 08/11/2022 11:21 AM
Status: Post and Reply
Linear : Threading : Single : Branch
 Correcting the "one" problem retroactively   - eskimoquin - 08/11/2022 11:21 AM  
 Correcting the "one" problem retroactively   - Lunis Orcutt - 08/11/2022 01:46 PM  
 Correcting the   - Alan Cantor - 08/11/2022 04:16 PM  
 Correcting the "one" problem retroactively   - dilligence - 08/11/2022 08:19 PM  
 Correcting the   - eskimoquin - 08/12/2022 01:01 AM  
 Correcting the   - R. Wilke - 08/12/2022 07:07 AM  
 Correcting the   - Matt_Chambers - 08/12/2022 07:50 AM  
 Correcting the   - eskimoquin - 08/12/2022 07:44 AM  
 Correcting the   - R. Wilke - 08/12/2022 09:10 AM  
 Correcting the   - Alan Cantor - 08/12/2022 08:47 AM  
 Correcting the   - R. Wilke - 08/12/2022 09:12 AM  
 Correcting the   - Alan Cantor - 08/12/2022 08:49 AM  
 Correcting the "one" problem retroactively   - ax - 08/13/2022 06:07 PM  
 Correcting the   - eskimoquin - 08/15/2022 06:23 PM  
 Correcting the   - eskimoquin - 08/16/2022 05:18 AM  
 Correcting the   - eskimoquin - 08/16/2022 06:19 AM  
 Correcting the   - eskimoquin - 08/16/2022 08:00 AM  
 Correcting the   - eskimoquin - 08/16/2022 08:43 AM  
 Correcting the   - Alan Cantor - 08/16/2022 09:17 AM  
 Correcting the   - eskimoquin - 08/16/2022 10:04 AM  
 Correcting the   - Alan Cantor - 08/16/2022 10:41 AM  
 Correcting the   - eskimoquin - 08/16/2022 05:58 PM  
 Correcting the   - Alan Cantor - 08/16/2022 07:32 PM  
 Correcting the   - eskimoquin - 08/17/2022 12:29 AM  
Keyword
 08/11/2022 11:21 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
eskimoquin
New Member

Posts: 12
Joined: 08/11/2022

You may know that for some people after Dragon (DPI v15.61) does a "Learn From Documents" then it starts to have trouble with "one". This was apparent last year when people were saying "2021" but getting "2020 one". I often say numbers that end in 1, especially 21 and 31. After I do "Learn From Documents", these often come out as "20 one" and "30 one". I fought with this for months and eventually deleted an otherwise great profile because of it.

Anyway, rather than trying to resolve the problem here (I've tried dozens of combinations), I'd like to focus on retroactively correcting the problem. Starting from the acceptance that when I say "31" but dragon WILL print "30 one", how can I automatically correct that? Is there some dragon function? If not, is there a third-party tool (maybe autohotkey)?

Any advice on correcting the mistake retroactively would be appreciated. A discussion on stopping it from happening could be had elsewhere.

Thanks!



-------------------------
I've forgotten my ICQ number but I'm glad I can put it here in case it makes a comeback.
 08/11/2022 01:46 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
Lunis Orcutt
Top-Tier Member

Posts: 40113
Joined: 10/01/2006

                    Welcome (See Mission Statement)

 

You might consider creating a new user profile and not running the Learn From Documents function. Creating a new profile was the only way we can sometimes get around the 2021 vs 2020 one problem.

You could optionally use the KnowBrainer 2020 Print <Dictation> command by saying something like Print <twenty twenty one> to get 2021 but we don't like this recommendation because it would require pausing before and after the command



-------------------------

Change "No" to "Know" w/KnowBrainer 2020
Trial Downloads
Dragon/Sales@KnowBrainer.com 
(615) 884-4558 ex 1



 08/11/2022 04:16 PM
User is online View Users Profile Print this message


Alan Cantor
Top-Tier Member

Posts: 4382
Joined: 12/08/2007


I fought with this for months and eventually deleted an otherwise great profile because of it.


I agree with Lunis. Create a new profile, and don't run "Learn From Documents." If you want to use the feature, compile a writing sample that does not include a lot of years. Let Dragon analyze your curated writing sample instead of documents and/or emails.

With a decent writing sample and your exported custom words and commands in hand, you can create a "great" profile in five or ten minutes. Accuracy doesn't improve much after that.
 08/11/2022 08:19 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
dilligence
Top-Tier Member

Posts: 1564
Joined: 08/16/2010

I think the best tip I can give you is to whenever you dictate any kind and number, precede it with "numeral". I.e. "numeral 31".

 

It took a little while, but it is now hardcoded in my brain to do this. And it always works. Some users, like Edgar have it really embedded and even use it in their phone conversations . I would've as well, if it weren't that I'm not a native speaker...

 

"Any advice on correcting the mistake retroactively would be appreciated"

 

I am familiar with "pro-active" and "in retrospect". I'm not familiar with "retroactively" (again, not a native speaker :-(). But if you mean changing all occurrences in your document of "30 one" into "31" all in one go, then SP Quick Correct© is the tool for you. It is featured in both SP 7 Standard as well as SP 7 PRO.

 

Here's a demonstration video:

 

 



-------------------------

https://speechproductivity.eu


Turbocharge your Dragon® productivity with 40 Power Addons



 08/12/2022 01:01 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
eskimoquin
New Member

Posts: 12
Joined: 08/11/2022

Thank you all for the responses.

Lunis:
I have created new profiles in the past when this problem occurred but was frustrated by poor Dragon performance without "learn from docs" or many months of training. I have transferred my custom word list (about 30 entries) but that still wasn't sufficient. It seems a lot of people on the forum say they easily and often make new profiles but it seems that so much gets lost. Maybe I'm not transferring something else that would be helpful? I don't use commands. One problem I have with creating a new profile is going through all the settings to make them how I want. Is there an easy way to save these to a new profile?

Alan:
I like the suggestion of giving Dragon a curated sample to see if this avoids the "one" problem. If I copy and paste my writing from about 50, 1.5 page documents into 1 thus cutting out names, dates and addresses, would that be sufficient? I really say the same things over and over with small differences (like number).

dilligence:
I say "number" before all my numbers. I'll say "post number 21" and expect Dragon to output "post no. 21". It may be difficult to say "post number numeral 21" but I'll keep this in mind. My band-aid for fixing this problem was to have a program (Dragon or other) to monitor the text being put on a page for "20 one" or "30 one" and automatically change it to "21" or "31". I wouldn't like to have to run another program separately after the document was created.


For now, I'll start with a test of a small document with a simple phrase. I'll run "Learn from documents" on it to see if this triggers the "one" problem. If not, I'll try to gather my writing sample from many documents and try "learn from documents" again on it.

In the spirit of this thread, does anyone know if AutoHotKey can monitor the text that Dragon puts into MS Word? This would allow it to replace "20 one" with "21". This might be better fitted for the "third-party" section.

-------------------------
I've forgotten my ICQ number but I'm glad I can put it here in case it makes a comeback.
 08/12/2022 07:07 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
R. Wilke
Top-Tier Member

Posts: 7898
Joined: 03/04/2007

Alan:
I like the suggestion of giving Dragon a curated sample to see if this avoids the "one" problem. If I copy and paste my writing from about 50, 1.5 page documents into 1 thus cutting out names, dates and addresses, would that be sufficient? I really say the same things over and over with small differences (like number).


I heartily agree with Alan as to the efficiency of "learning from documents", given your requirements, and when done properly.

"Done properly" here actually does include pruning out dates and numbers, as they contribute nothing to the purpose of adapting to your usage. Bear in mind that there are two main goals to achieve from adapting: learning your custom words, and adapting to the contexts you typically use the vocabulary in. Dates and numbers, however, play absolutely no role within contexts, and may even have the opposite effect.

In my experience over 20 years of using Dragon to get the reporting in my day job done, a "well curated", and large enough sample document (at best in TXT format) is the road to success whenever creating a new profile is needed. (Not that often any longer as in the old days, fortunately.)

-------------------------



No need to buy if all you want to do is try ...

DragonCapture KB Download (Latest)
DragonCapture Homepage

 08/12/2022 07:50 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
Matt_Chambers
Top-Tier Member

Posts: 599
Joined: 08/09/2018

Originally posted by: R. Wilke
Alan: I like the suggestion of giving Dragon a curated sample to see if this avoids the "one" problem. If I copy and paste my writing from about 50, 1.5 page documents into 1 thus cutting out names, dates and addresses, would that be sufficient? I really say the same things over and over with small differences (like number).
I heartily agree with Alan as to the efficiency of "learning from documents", given your requirements, and when done properly. "Done properly" here actually does include pruning out dates and numbers, as they contribute nothing to the purpose of adapting to your usage. Bear in mind that there are two main goals to achieve from adapting: learning your custom words, and adapting to the contexts you typically use the vocabulary in. Dates and numbers, however, play absolutely no role within contexts, and may even have the opposite effect. In my experience over 20 years of using Dragon to get the reporting in my day job done, a "well curated", and large enough sample document (at best in TXT format) is the road to success whenever creating a new profile is needed. (Not that often any longer as in the old days, fortunately.)

Minor point, but can't you accomplish all this by creating a new vocabulary and learning from curated documents, rather than creating a new profile?

 08/12/2022 07:44 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
eskimoquin
New Member

Posts: 12
Joined: 08/11/2022

Thanks RW.

I've just finished a quick test. I pulled samples from 50 documents cutting out all the names, dates, etc combining it into one document. I created a new profile and immediately launched "learn from documents" on this sample. I reviewed the words (40?) that it found and put a check mark next to them to accept them. I did not train any of these words. About 10 of them ended up in the custom word list. In this limited test, I did NOT see the "one" problem though I'll keep testing and report back if the problem does arise. I'll probably add more raw text to this curated sample, I'll import custom words from other profiles and I'll go through and change all the settings to my liking.

During this test, I remembered another trigger for the "one" problem, "Accuracy Tuning". I recall a series of times that this problem arose, I was being very careful not to let Dragon "learn from documents"; it kept asking me when I'd open Dragon. However, the problem occurred anyway and I realized (by the presence of an automatic profile backup) that Dragon ran accuracy tuning just before the problem started. I think one can disable the schedule for accuracy tuning; is this advisable?

Thank you all so much.

-------------------------
I've forgotten my ICQ number but I'm glad I can put it here in case it makes a comeback.
 08/12/2022 09:10 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
R. Wilke
Top-Tier Member

Posts: 7898
Joined: 03/04/2007

I think one can disable the schedule for accuracy tuning; is this advisable?

 

Absolutely. Better make sure to be in control yourself as to when it is run, and in addition to that, if in doubt, make a backup prior to running it. 



-------------------------



No need to buy if all you want to do is try ...

DragonCapture KB Download (Latest)
DragonCapture Homepage

 08/12/2022 08:47 AM
User is online View Users Profile Print this message


Alan Cantor
Top-Tier Member

Posts: 4382
Joined: 12/08/2007


Minor point, but can't you accomplish all this by creating a new vocabulary and learning from curated documents, rather than creating a new profile?


Matt, you might be right. This could be a quicker method. I've never thought to try this. Next time, I will!

Yet the approach don't be significantly faster. I can create a profile in under five minutes, including the analysis of my writing sample.
 08/12/2022 09:12 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
R. Wilke
Top-Tier Member

Posts: 7898
Joined: 03/04/2007

Originally posted by: Alan Cantor
Minor point, but can't you accomplish all this by creating a new vocabulary and learning from curated documents, rather than creating a new profile?
Matt, you might be right. This could be a quicker method. I've never thought to try this. Next time, I will! Yet the approach don't be significantly faster. I can create a profile in under five minutes, including the analysis of my writing sample.

 

I admit that I never thought about it, but Matt is correct in that reusing the profile with merely a new vocabulary will save you the time otherwise spent on redoing all your settings.

 

However, when doing it this way, I would definitely recommend resetting the audio calibration also.



-------------------------



No need to buy if all you want to do is try ...

DragonCapture KB Download (Latest)
DragonCapture Homepage



 08/12/2022 08:49 AM
User is online View Users Profile Print this message


Alan Cantor
Top-Tier Member

Posts: 4382
Joined: 12/08/2007


"Done properly" here actually does include pruning out dates and numbers, as they contribute nothing to the purpose of adapting to your usage. Bear in mind that there are two main goals to achieve from adapting: learning your custom words, and adapting to the contexts you typically use the vocabulary in. Dates and numbers, however, play absolutely no role within contexts, and may even have the opposite effect.


A five-star posting!! Thank you, RW!
 08/13/2022 06:07 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
ax
Top-Tier Member

Posts: 480
Joined: 03/22/2012

Originally posted by: eskimoquin ... In the spirit of this thread, does anyone know if AutoHotKey can monitor the text that Dragon puts into MS Word? This would allow it to replace "20 one" with "21". This might be better fitted for the "third-party" section.

In theory it can work, as others have testified (https://www.knowbrainer.com/forums/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=4&threadid=35766)

But it would be application by application.  And highly cumbersome, not to mention that I could see it interfering with Select-and-Say in unpredictable ways even in places where it would work.

The easiest thing to do is just to try it and let others know.  After all, making "live" hotstring substitutions and testing them out would be among the "noobiest" of noob things a beginner AHKer could do.

In my cloud dragon, the straight-up hotstring replacements won't work.  Basically where it works I reckon would be where desktop Dragon is "simulating" typing in ways AHK could intercept.

As a matter of "brainstorming", you are better off trying DragonCapture, which, if I'm not mistaken, has some simulated typing methods built-in, to overcome the grating of chastity belts such as Citrix.  Any text flown/redirected out of DC through "simulated typing" may be intercepted by AHK for processing.

You could test it and let us know.

Worse comes to worst, you could try post-processing, if everything is done within MS Word, with something like a Word Macro to correct any formatting silliness.



 08/15/2022 06:23 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
eskimoquin
New Member

Posts: 12
Joined: 08/11/2022

Great tips Ax. I'm going to work on this profile for accuracy. If the "one" problem arises and I like the profile otherwise, I'll try these suggestions and follow up. I didn't think of a Word macro before so I've put it on my list of things to try.

To follow up with the say "numeral" suggestion from before, I did try this but it didn't work. I said, "post number numeral thirty one" and Dragon wrote "post no. 30 one". It seems that Dragon got it's numeral as 30 and then went on to write "one".

Also, in the past, I contacted Dragon support twice for this problem. Their only solution was to make a new profile. I'm surprised this problem wasn't widely known to them.

-------------------------
I've forgotten my ICQ number but I'm glad I can put it here in case it makes a comeback.
 08/16/2022 05:18 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
eskimoquin
New Member

Posts: 12
Joined: 08/11/2022

Well, I added my custom word list to the new Dragon profile before changing ANY settings. I tested for the "one" problem before and after. Unfortunately, adding these words caused the "one" problem to arise. My custom word list only has about 35 words in it (no numbers, no "one") and Dragon only added 20 of them. I did train the words when I added them.

It seems the "one" problem can be triggered by Learn from Documents, Import List of Words (unless it was the training I did), or from Accuracy Tuning. For this new profile, the only things I did were "learn from documents" on a curated sample and "import list of words." This sucks. The ease of triggering this problem is why I think it is important to find a way to correct the problem after it occurs rather than to avoid the problem.

AutoCorrect:
I only dictate in MS Word. I made an AutoCorrection entry to replace "30 one" with "31". If I say, "post number thirty-one", Dragon puts "post number 30 one". If I press space/enter key after that, Word will AutoCorrect it but if I say, "post number thirty-one is green" then press space/enter key, Word will NOT AutoCorrect it. Similarly, if I paste "30 one" then press space/enter Word will AutoCorrect but if I paste "30 one is green" then Word will NOT AutoCorrect. This makes me think that AutoHotKey will behave similarly as *I think* it has trouble doing replace on pasted text.

I REALLY don't want to manually run another program or macro or process after I'm done dictating; it needs to be automatic. Maybe I can get a macro to run every 30 seconds to find/replace. Would that be intrusive? (Thinking out loud.)

-------------------------
I've forgotten my ICQ number but I'm glad I can put it here in case it makes a comeback.
 08/16/2022 06:19 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
eskimoquin
New Member

Posts: 12
Joined: 08/11/2022

As I think of ways to correct the "one" problem after Dragon puts it in my documents, I wonder if Dragon itself can correct it. I am very inexperienced with Dragon. Is there some training method where you can force it to put "31" whenever you say "thirty-one". I understand Dragon has some scripting functionality. Is there some script that can listen for "thirty-one" and force the output to be "31" instead of "30 one"?

In the meantime, I'll play with AutoHotKey (but I have only very basic knowledge of it also).

-------------------------
I've forgotten my ICQ number but I'm glad I can put it here in case it makes a comeback.
 08/16/2022 08:00 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
eskimoquin
New Member

Posts: 12
Joined: 08/11/2022

I created a Custom Command so when I say, "post number thirty-one" it will print "post number 31". This didn't work well because I had to pause after the "command" for it to work. If I kept speaking like "post number thirty-one is green" then it wouldn't recognize the phrase as a command. Also, It wouldn't auto capitalize "post".

I also did Add New Word or Phrase and Improve Recognition of Word or Phrase. I typed in "31" and trained it. This didn't make a difference.

-------------------------
I've forgotten my ICQ number but I'm glad I can put it here in case it makes a comeback.
 08/16/2022 08:43 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
eskimoquin
New Member

Posts: 12
Joined: 08/11/2022

SOLVED?

I started looking in the Vocabulary Editor. I searched for "one" and opened the "one" as in the pronoun (there are two "one"s; you have to open it to see which one you have). I changed the printed form from "one" to "1". When I said, "post number thirty-one", Dragon printed, "post number 30 1". WOW! So Dragon has been putting in a pronoun ("one") next to these numbers. Next, I deleted the "one" (pronoun) entry. BEWARE, see below. I then tested all my numbers 21, 31, 41, etc and NONE of them printed with "one". I saved/closed/opened Dragon and tested again. Still, no "one" problem. I'll continue to test and report back here if the "one" problem arises again and if I cannot resolve it by deleting the pronoun "one".

BEWARE:
While one can restore words that are deleted in the Vocabulary Editor by choosing "Display: Deleted Words Only", deleting the pronoun "one" seems to cause Dragon to forget that this was a special word with a special description and different from the number "one". So, when you try to restore the "one" that you deleted, it will tell you that you already have "one" in your vocabulary.

ALSO, after deleting the pronoun "one", when you say phrases like, "While one can restore words", you will get "While 1 can restore words". The pronoun "one" is gone. This is fine by me. I never dictate it in Dragon.

-------------------------
I've forgotten my ICQ number but I'm glad I can put it here in case it makes a comeback.
 08/16/2022 09:17 AM
User is online View Users Profile Print this message


Alan Cantor
Top-Tier Member

Posts: 4382
Joined: 12/08/2007


... post number 31 is green ...


Is there a pattern for this phrase? For example:

post number [1 to 200] is [green, yellow, red, or blue]

or

post number [11, 21, 31, ... 91] is [green or none]

 08/16/2022 10:04 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
eskimoquin
New Member

Posts: 12
Joined: 08/11/2022

It's not so rigid. Sometimes I have a phrase before "post" and I sometimes re-arrange the sentence to end with "post number 31".



-------------------------
I've forgotten my ICQ number but I'm glad I can put it here in case it makes a comeback.
 08/16/2022 10:41 AM
User is online View Users Profile Print this message


Alan Cantor
Top-Tier Member

Posts: 4382
Joined: 12/08/2007

Another approach:

Open the Vocabulary Editor.

Add "post number" as a new phrase, and select it.

Click "Properties..."

Choose the value of "and following numbers" from the drop-down list to "as numerals."
 08/16/2022 05:58 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
eskimoquin
New Member

Posts: 12
Joined: 08/11/2022

I loaded an old profile with the "one" problem and tried your suggestion to make a new phrase and format the following numbers as numerals.

This didn't resolve the problem. I believe this is because when I say "post number thirty-one" and Dragon prints "post number 30 one", it has satisfied the format request to follow as numerals with "30". It is then allowed to print the pronoun "one".

Thanks for your suggestions however.

-------------------------
I've forgotten my ICQ number but I'm glad I can put it here in case it makes a comeback.
 08/16/2022 07:32 PM
User is online View Users Profile Print this message


Alan Cantor
Top-Tier Member

Posts: 4382
Joined: 12/08/2007

This is a long shot...

In AutoFormatting options, what setting are you using for "Allow pauses in formatted phrases?"


If not checked, automatic number formatting may not work if you pause slightly while saying a phrase.

 08/17/2022 12:29 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
eskimoquin
New Member

Posts: 12
Joined: 08/11/2022

Yes, "Allow pauses in formatted phrases" is checked.

To be sure that I wasn't speaking too slowly so as to cause "thirty-one" to output "30 one", I tried many times to say it very quickly. It would still come out as "30 one" when Dragon understood what I was saying (because I was saying it so fast). In the new profile that I created during this thread, 51 and 31 gave problems but 21, 41, 61, 71, 81, 91 and 101 did not. In other profiles, the problem numbers would be different but 31 was the most common problem.

-------------------------
I've forgotten my ICQ number but I'm glad I can put it here in case it makes a comeback.
Statistics
32359 users are registered to the KnowBrainer Speech Recognition forum.
There are currently 2 users logged in.
The most users ever online was 12124 on 09/09/2020 at 04:59 AM.
There are currently 262 guests browsing this forum, which makes a total of 264 users using this forum.

FuseTalk Standard Edition v4.0 - © 1999-2022 FuseTalk™ Inc. All rights reserved.