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Topic Title: Dragon and Mac M1 chip
Topic Summary: Can Dragon run in ARM?
Created On: 11/28/2021 11:11 AM
Status: Post and Reply
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 Dragon and Mac M1 chip   - tomdbl - 11/28/2021 11:11 AM  
 Dragon and Mac M1 chip   - ax - 11/28/2021 03:50 PM  
 Dragon and Mac M1 chip   - tomdbl - 12/01/2021 06:13 AM  
 Dragon and Mac M1 chip   - jzents - 04/24/2022 05:49 PM  
 Dragon and Mac M1 chip   - Mav - 04/25/2022 02:13 AM  
 Dragon and Mac M1 chip   - Bernd - 01/16/2022 03:44 PM  
 Dragon and Mac M1 chip   - Lunis Orcutt - 01/16/2022 06:55 PM  
 Dragon and Mac M1 chip   - tomdbl - 01/18/2022 06:01 AM  
 Dragon and Mac M1 chip   - ax - 01/16/2022 09:53 PM  
 Dragon and Mac M1 chip   - LnDictating - 02/24/2022 08:25 AM  
 Dragon and Mac M1 chip   - Scott Baker - 02/25/2022 11:22 AM  
 Dragon and Mac M1 chip   - andyadler - 04/22/2022 04:57 PM  
 Dragon and Mac M1 chip   - Lunis Orcutt - 02/24/2022 03:03 PM  
 Dragon and Mac M1 chip   - WriterGuy - 03/02/2022 10:42 AM  
 Dragon and Mac M1 chip   - Scott Baker - 03/03/2022 07:23 AM  
 Dragon and Mac M1 chip   - Ag - 03/02/2022 07:01 PM  
 Dragon and Mac M1 chip   - WriterGuy - 03/03/2022 09:26 AM  
 Dragon and Mac M1 chip   - Allan H. - 03/04/2022 12:42 AM  
 Dragon and Mac M1 chip   - Lunis Orcutt - 03/04/2022 02:54 PM  
 Dragon and Mac M1 chip   - Stephan Kuepper - 04/25/2022 02:41 AM  
 Dragon and Mac M1 chip   - tomdbl - 04/25/2022 05:59 AM  
 Dragon and Mac M1 chip   - tomdbl - 04/25/2022 06:02 AM  
 Dragon and Mac M1 chip   - JRL - 06/01/2022 09:06 AM  
 Dragon and Mac M1 chip   - WriterGuy - 06/01/2022 01:16 PM  
 Dragon and Mac M1 chip   - Mav - 06/02/2022 01:44 AM  
 Dragon and Mac M1 chip   - WriterGuy - 06/02/2022 08:08 AM  
 Dragon and Mac M1 chip   - Mav - 06/03/2022 02:04 AM  
 Dragon and Mac M1 chip   - JRL - 06/02/2022 08:13 AM  
 Dragon and Mac M1 chip   - JRL - 06/02/2022 08:26 AM  
Keyword
 11/28/2021 11:11 AM
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tomdbl
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Sorry if this has been discussed here but I couldn't find anything.

My understanding of the new Macs with the M1 chip is that PC virtualisation is still possible (with eg Parallels) but it will only run the ARM version of Windows 11. 

This is typical, from pcmag.com:

"However, running Windows 11 on an M1 Mac with Parallels does come with a catch: You’ll only be able to run the ARM-based version of Windows 11, not the x86 Intel-compatible version of the operating system. Hence, the experience is largely limited to using ARM-based apps, although Microsoft is working on an ARM emulator to run x86-based Windows apps." 

Will Dragon run on this setup?

Thanks

Tom



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Tom

 11/28/2021 03:50 PM
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ax
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I am on-call again this week so I am looking for some "distraction".

My favourite online "distraction" is coming here (the only place I frequent as a matter of fact, as my FB page has been dormant for 5+ years, and I'm too old for "PukeTok").

I point you to this ad nauseum thread, as a matter of "public service":

https://www.knowbrainer.com/forums/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=35271&enterthread=y



 12/01/2021 06:13 AM
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tomdbl
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Thanks for this. I found the thread a bit confusing, but I went ahead and downloaded Dragon Professional Individual for the new ARM Windows 11 + Parallels 17 (because could always send it straight back back and get a refund).

Happy to report that DPI installed easily, opened OK and is working beautifully on my new M1 Mac with Windows 11.

A few points:

Be sure not to try to download DPI into any folder shared with the Mac - the download will just stall.

As with the previous sound setup under Windows 10, just let the Mac sound settings default through to the PC. So, in the Parallels 'sound and camera' configuration window, make sure you have the microphone and output set to 'default' in the drop down menu. This will just let the Mac sound settings default to the PC. Don't select any of the particular microphones you may have available (see pic). Just use 'default'.

Tom






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Tom

 04/24/2022 05:49 PM
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jzents
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DId you download a special version of DNP for ARM?



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Jeffrey Zents
 04/25/2022 02:13 AM
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Mav
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There is no special version of Dragon, only a special version of Windows for ARM.

 

From Dragon's perspective, it's being executed on a more or less regular Windows installation.

The fact that Dragon's architecture (x86/x64) is not the same as the Mac (ARM) is being handled by a special emulation unit shipped with Windows on ARM enabling x86 applications to run in this environment.

 

hth

mav

 01/16/2022 03:44 PM
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Bernd
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Hi Tom,
thank you very much for the info - very encouraging!
I need to use a Mac for work & am currently running the latest versions of DPI and Parallels on a Win 11 VM on a 2019 Intel Macbook Pro.
For some reason the Win 11 Vms & DPI don't seem as 'zippy' as the Win 10 versions & I think I have done all the tweaking I can.
In the process of replacing my wife's ancient MacBook Air & wondering if I should pass on my machine to her and invest in an M1/M1pro MacBook Pro to use for DPI instead.
Might you - and other users - be able to share the specs of your machine and your user experience / how 'fast' the Vms & Dragon are working?
Thank you very much
Bernd

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Bernd
 01/16/2022 06:55 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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While you should be able to install and use Dragon 15 on Windows 11, neither we or Nuance recommend doing so. There are numerous hiccups from Windows 11 running slower to being completely unusable without rebooting. Nuance is working on a patch so this may not be an issue much longer but for the time being, we only recommend Windows 10. We are using Windows 11 because many Dragon end-users are purchasing new computers with Windows 11 preinstalled and we have to support it.

Microsoft is also finishing a separate speech recognition utility for Windows 11. The scuttlebutt has it that Voice Access will be released in a soon to come update. If you're using Microsoft 365 in Windows 10, you can test the new speech engine in Microsoft Word. This is nothing but a raw speech engine but the accuracy rivals Dragon and makes us wonder how much longer the Dragon Home Edition will offer any value.



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 01/18/2022 06:01 AM
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tomdbl
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Hi Bernd, I've only just seen this. 

Not sure I can help with any tweaks to speed it up. FWIW I'm using:

MacBook Pro with M1 Max chip, 64Gb RAM, Monterey 12.01. 

Parallels 17.1.1

Windows 11 'Pro insider preview' developer build 22526.1000.

I know this is all highly experimental, not supported and may end in tears, but that's been the case since 2008 when I first started using Mac+Parallels+Dragon.

It works very well so far and faster than my old setup with a mid-2015 MBP and Windows 10.

One small quirk with this setup. Knowbrainer 2020 won't start Dragon by itself. You get a dialogue that says "KnowBrainer needs to restart Dragon and/or some redundant Dragon processes to resynchronise". Clicking on OK just repeats the process. So I just open Dragon first and then KnowBrainer, and it's all fine.



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Tom

 01/16/2022 09:53 PM
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ax
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^^^ appreciate the "scuttlebutt" whisper.

Practically the only enticement with which to bait some of us to swallow that Win 11 hook before 2025 would be an improved native Microsoft Speech Recognizer.  Who knows, maybe they will "port it down" to Windows 10 still.

It's really a necessity for meeting OS accessibility "obligation", I'd reckon, especially since macOS has pulled off a good job on that platform already.



 02/24/2022 08:25 AM
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LnDictating
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Tom or anyone else who has installed Windows 11 and the newest version of Dragon using Parallels, I am wonder how the situation is several months later.  I have a new M1 Macbook Pro with 16 GB memory.  I installed Parallels but they only give me the option to automatically install Windows 11. Lunis warns against this.  

To install Windows 10 according to Youtubers, I don't understand anything about ARM64 (Windows VHDS program???? is also needed??? for people making software??).  From youtube, it looks like something for gamers.  Total overkill.  I just use Dragon on a PC for ordinary medical record keeping.  

Are the Windows 11 installations with Newest dragon still going strong?  I really only want to use DNS.  Nothing else.  Actually, I think only Tom is talking about his success.  

I am not against installing Windows 10.  Do I need the ARM64 part too?  All of this is beyond me, so I am looking for advice. Can I just install windows 10 and it will automatically relate to Parallels??  

Of by now, do we know that Windows 11 works with DNS?

Sorry to be asking in a probably very dumb way, but what I am reading about all this is not clear to me.

Ellen Madono



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MacDicate VXI TalkPro5 and  DNS Premium Win 8.1 Knowbrainer 2015 Travel TableMic


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


More capable on a Mac than on a PC.

 02/25/2022 11:22 AM
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Scott Baker
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Ellen, your only option on an M1 Mac right now is to install Windows 11 via Parallels 17. This is because your Mac can only run an ARM-based operating system; current versions of Windows 10 are now Intel-only. The only version of Windows on ARM that Microsoft now provides is 11 and this is automatically installed for you during the Parallels setup process.

I am successfully running Dragon 15.61 with this setup (MacBook Air M1, Parallels Desktop 17, Windows 11 on ARM). Be aware, however, you can only dictate directly into DragonPad - using Word, Notepad, Wordpad etc results in unusable lag. You will also need to install Dragon via a full executable installer file.



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Scott Baker
Author of 'The Writer's Guide to Training Your Dragon'
www.scottbakerbooks.com

 04/22/2022 04:57 PM
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andyadler
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Forgive this late-entry reply to this thread, but I dictate directly into Word without any discernable lag. Granted, I've been careful to maintain my existing setup employing Windows 10 ARM and not "upgrading" to Win 11. I recognize that this isn't an ideal solution, but for now, at least, it works quite well -- even when using the built-in mics on my M1 MB Air (16gb RAM).

 02/24/2022 03:03 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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Windows 11 ARM and Parallels 17 may be your only Mac option but we failed to install Dragon 15 on the only 2 Macs we have tried. We suspect you will not be able to install Dragon but even if you could, you would probably not like Windows 11. We can only recommend purchasing a dedicated Windows 10 computer at this time.

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 03/02/2022 10:42 AM
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WriterGuy
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Hi Scott,

Nice to see you on the forum! I read your 2020 post on running Dragon on the new M1 machines with great interest, and even asked some questions in the comments section, to which you were kind enough to reply. (Your responses were very helpful.)

I was interested to see that you have been running Dragon on a MacBook Air M1, which I've also been contemplating buying; and I wondered if you were any more optimistic about the likelihood of being able to continue running Dragon with that setup. My current 2014 Macbook is beginning to show its age, leaving me at a crossroads: I am contemplating either moving completely to a Windows setup, or running my current machine into the ground and then using an inexpensive Windows machine to run Dragon and a new Apple machine for everything else.

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DPI 15/Windows 7/Parallels Desktop 14 on a MacBook Pro

 03/03/2022 07:23 AM
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Scott Baker
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Originally posted by: WriterGuy Hi Scott, Nice to see you on the forum! I read your 2020 post on running Dragon on the new M1 machines with great interest, and even asked some questions in the comments section, to which you were kind enough to reply. (Your responses were very helpful.) I was interested to see that you have been running Dragon on a MacBook Air M1, which I've also been contemplating buying; and I wondered if you were any more optimistic about the likelihood of being able to continue running Dragon with that setup. My current 2014 Macbook is beginning to show its age, leaving me at a crossroads: I am contemplating either moving completely to a Windows setup, or running my current machine into the ground and then using an inexpensive Windows machine to run Dragon and a new Apple machine for everything else.

I'm not sure how I feel about it. It works, and continues to do so, but is it really a long-term solution? Of course not. It's fine for heavily invested Mac users who simply need an option for Dragon to work on their machines, but who knows where things will go from here? Microsoft are buying Nuance, Windows 11 on ARM is an oddity regarding licensing, Apple no longer cares about dual-booting/VMs etc.

The harsh reality is that the Mac is not the ideal platform for speech recognition (if it ever was). Dragon is now strictly a Windows program, so the best advice would be to buy a Windows PC to run it. I'm not asking anyone to abandon their Macs (far from it - I use both Windows and Mac daily) but if you are serious about running Dragon as part of your workflow then a Windows PC should be your go-to setup.



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Scott Baker
Author of 'The Writer's Guide to Training Your Dragon'
www.scottbakerbooks.com

 03/02/2022 07:01 PM
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Ag
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Do you really want to use Russian software?


The Parallels virtual machine software was originally written in Russia, and is apparently still maintained by a team of programmers in Russia.


Last I heard it was acquired by the Canadian company Corel in 2018, and Corel is apparently owned by famous vulture fund KKR .

 

None of this inspires confidence in code inspection to prevent security bugs from being introduced.



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DPG15.6 (also DPI 15.3) + KB, Sennheiser MB Pro 1 UC ML, BTD 800 dongle, Windows 10 Pro, MS Surface Book 3, Intel Core i7-1065G7 CPU @ 1.3/1.5GHz (4 cores, 8 logical, GPU=NVIDIA Quadro RTX 3000 with Max-Q Design.



 03/03/2022 09:26 AM
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WriterGuy
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Thanks for confirming my suspicions. :-)

I can't say I'm not disappointed by this turn of events--it's been great having one machine that can handle everything--but a Windows laptop is now in my future. At least thanks to Lunis' recommended specs, I'll know what to look for!

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DPI 15/Windows 7/Parallels Desktop 14 on a MacBook Pro

 03/04/2022 12:42 AM
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Allan H.
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I know it's a little off topic here, but I have a new IPad with M1 CPU. Any recommendations for speech to text please? Dragon/parallels is out of the question.
Cheers,
Allan H
 03/04/2022 02:54 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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In our opinion, the iPad isn't even really a computer but it is certainly not a device that you can install Windows on. Other than Siri, you don't really have an option. Nuance is supposed to release an edition of Dragon Professional Anywhere this fall, that will work on an iPad. This is the cloud version of DPA that is leased for $660 a year

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 04/25/2022 02:41 AM
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Stephan Kuepper
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Originally posted by: Lunis Orcutt Nuance is supposed to release an edition of Dragon Professional Anywhere this fall, that will work on an iPad. This is the cloud version of DPA that is leased for $660 a year

 

Is that the version I've been running for three years?

 

I don't normally do this, but see my signature for details if you're interested in Dragon Anywhere for iPad.

 

Hth, Stephan



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 04/25/2022 05:59 AM
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tomdbl
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FWIW, update on this:

I am using MacBook Pro with M1 Max chip, 64Gb RAM, Monterey 12.3.1
Parallels 17.1.2 and Windows 11 Pro build 22581.200

It is still working fine difficulty with Dragon 15, although as some have noted, last time I checked WordPad didn't work satisfactorily, but I never use WordPad it anyway. Word works fine, as always.

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Tom

 04/25/2022 06:02 AM
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tomdbl
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Sorry, that should have been "it is still working fine, without difficulty"

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Tom

 06/01/2022 09:06 AM
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JRL
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I am using a MacBook Pro with the Apple M1 Pro chip and 16 GB of memory running macOS Monterey V. 12.4, Parallels 17, and Microsoft office for home and student. Dragon NaturallySpeaking Professional Individual is version 15.61.200.010, and I am dictating through a Junivo USB microphone into Word. With tremendous disappointment, I found that I could not run Dragon NaturallySpeaking implemented through the existing Parallels on my new M1 MacBook Pro, which I purchased in December 2021. Tediously I explored Apple Dictation for the next five months. With interest and excitement, I recently read on this forum that the contemporary Parallels 17 would operate on the Macintosh M1 chip and allow me to use Dragon NaturallySpeaking on my MacBook Pro. I am a 30-year veteran of Dragon NaturallySpeaking used for medical dictation. This note confirms that it all works, speedy and spectacular, works as it should.

JRL

 

 06/01/2022 01:16 PM
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WriterGuy
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Well, that's good news! No problems with Windows Pro 11 for ARM? I had written this off as an option, but with the good reviews mounting, I am reconsidering...

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DPI 15/Windows 7/Parallels Desktop 14 on a MacBook Pro

 06/02/2022 01:44 AM
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Mav
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FWIK (although I don't have first-hand experience with an M1 Mac):

You need a special Windows version (Windows on ARM) to run in Parallels.

Several people here in the forums got Windows 10 on ARM to run on Parallels and were able to install and run Dragon in this Windows installation.

 

I'm unsure if there's a Windows 11 on ARM (and even if it were, why would you prefer Windows 11 over 10?), though.

 

hth

mav

 

 06/02/2022 08:08 AM
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WriterGuy
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Hi Mav,

Apparently it's out there. Here's what Microsoft has to say about 11 vs 10 https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/arm/overview:

"Windows 10 enables existing unmodified x86 apps to run on Arm devices. Windows 11 adds the ability to run unmodified x64 Windows apps on Arm devices! This ability to run x86 & x64 apps on Arm devices gives end-users confidence that the majority of their existing apps & tools will run well even on new Arm-powered devices."

Would that difference make any difference to someone running DPI on an M1 Mac?

JRL, what version of Windows are you running? And did you have any trouble installing it?



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DPI 15/Windows 7/Parallels Desktop 14 on a MacBook Pro



 06/03/2022 02:04 AM
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Mav
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@WriterGuy: Thanks for that info, good to know.

My quick google searches yesterday only returned headlines saying that Windows 11 will NOT support ARM and I haven't dug any further.

 

hth

mav

 06/02/2022 08:13 AM
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JRL
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I use a Macintosh because I do not prefer Windows. I see Windows as a necessary evil that lets me use Dragon on my M1 MacBook Pro. I am delighted that Dragon NaturallySpeaking is now running on this computer. I had considered updating one of my older PCs or purchasing perhaps a refurbished PC exclusively to run Dragon for transcription. I am delighted to say that I do not have to do this now that I have accomplished running Dragon NaturallySpeaking on my MacBook Pro and do not have to contemplate dragging around two computers.
 06/02/2022 08:26 AM
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JRL
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I am using Windows 11 Home, Version 10.0.22000 on a Parallels ARM Virtual Machine.
JRL
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