KnowBrainer Speech Recognition
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Topic Title: microphone response
Topic Summary: microphones slow to responding to wake up or the microphone on command
Created On: 10/30/2020 06:02 PM
Status: Post and Reply
Linear : Threading : Single : Branch
 microphone response   - mikeoc4me - 10/30/2020 06:02 PM  
 microphone response   - Lunis Orcutt - 10/31/2020 12:28 PM  
 microphone response   - mikeoc4me - 10/31/2020 04:06 PM  
 microphone response   - Lunis Orcutt - 10/31/2020 06:58 PM  
 microphone response   - mikeoc4me - 11/05/2020 06:45 PM  
 microphone response   - Ag - 11/05/2020 07:52 PM  
 microphone response   - mikeoc4me - 11/05/2020 08:39 PM  
 microphone response   - Ag - 11/06/2020 12:04 PM  
 microphone response   - PG LTU - 11/06/2020 11:47 AM  
 microphone response   - mikeoc4me - 11/06/2020 06:05 PM  
 microphone response   - R. Wilke - 11/07/2020 06:49 AM  
 microphone response   - mikeoc4me - 11/08/2020 07:50 PM  
 microphone response   - mikeoc4me - 11/08/2020 08:21 PM  
 microphone response   - R. Wilke - 11/09/2020 05:18 PM  
 microphone response   - mikeoc4me - 11/09/2020 10:30 PM  
 microphone response   - Lunis Orcutt - 11/10/2020 12:01 PM  
 microphone response   - R. Wilke - 11/10/2020 01:25 PM  
 microphone response   - mikeoc4me - 11/10/2020 07:25 PM  
 microphone response   - Lunis Orcutt - 11/10/2020 08:37 PM  
 microphone response   - mikeoc4me - 11/11/2020 07:40 PM  
 microphone response   - R. Wilke - 11/11/2020 09:17 PM  
 microphone response   - Mav - 11/12/2020 01:42 AM  
 microphone response   - R. Wilke - 11/12/2020 06:40 AM  
 microphone response   - mikeoc4me - 11/12/2020 05:43 PM  
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 10/31/2020 12:28 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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Try opening DragonPad, dictate a few words, briefly pause and then say play that back. You are listening for interference.



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 10/31/2020 04:06 PM
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mikeoc4me
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I dictated him to DragonPad as you suggested and the playback seem to be just fine as far as I can tell.

Could it be a problem with not enough memory, have 60 MB but I have several browsers open at a time with a lot of tabs.

 10/31/2020 06:58 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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RAM is not the problem. When Dragon doesn't understand what you say, it internally studies your recording and eventually makes its best guess. Can you try your old microphone to see if it works better? If an alternate microphone is not available, try moving Dragon's Accuracy slider, in Dragon's Miscellaneous/Options, to Fastest Response; for test purposes only. If your dictation drop speed noticeably increases, you may need to replace your sound system, which we realized you purchased from us.

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 11/05/2020 06:45 PM
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mikeoc4me
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I switched back to my old buddy microphone it hasn't made any difference, If I haven't been using DragonDictate for a while it will turn on instantaneously but then when I say  the command go to sleep  it will turn off right away and then if I want to turn it back on there will be a pause of anywhere from 5 to 20 seconds. I also tried using the plus key with someone's help and I will get the same pause. Something is also causing the microphone to turn red and freeze. Then I have to close Dragon and  restart it. Sometimes Dragon will freeze and it will also make my  Jousefreeze at the same time and I have to do a total restart of the computer. it only freezes my jouse control of the mouse but the manual mouse will still work. When this happens I get a funny tone from the computer which may or may not freeze the mouse.

 11/05/2020 07:52 PM
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Ag
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You say "slow to respond to wake up" I assume that you mean that the microphone has been asleep (blue icon in recent dragon), and yiu want ti turn it to green so that you can dictate and speak commands.


The consensus on this group is that you should never send Dragon to sleep, certainly not for a long time. Instead you should turn gthe Dragon microphone off (red icon in DragonBar or the system tray).


Conjecture: Dragon has to listen even when "asleep", if only to lisen for the "wake up" command. Apparently this can lead to significant amounts of buffered sound input, and hence long stalls when waking up. Particularly if Dragon has been asleep (a) while you were doing something ese that caused Dragon to swap out, and/or (b) if you there was a lot of speech or sound while Dragon was asleep. E.g. if you put Dragon to sleep so that you can talk into a Zoom or telephone meeting.

 

I have only seen this problem with Dragon 15.x.  I do not recall seeing it on early versions, like Dragon 5(!) - I had a big gap in using Dragon, so I don't know if this problem came in along the way.




Since I started following this advice, my happiness with Dragon has increased greatly. Always turn the mic off, rather than putting Dragin to sleep.


It has also helped to disable, or as close as possible, the Dragon option to "go to sleep after N minutes". There does not seem to be a way to trulty disable this, but setting it to the maximjm value, 120 minutes, has helped a lot. Apparently it is better to listen from the green/awake state than from the blue/asleep state. I have gone further, and have written AHK code to turn the mic off after a shorter timeout (currenty 5 minutes). My mic-off-timeout is a bit of a hack, since I am hookig AHK's notion of idle, which dors not take speech into account, but R.Wilke has said that he might add such a feature to DragonCapture, which does.

Some people have reported good results using Dragon's PTT (Push-To-Talk) feature. I can confirm this, when I haved mapped a keyboard key to PTT. I don't use this, because I often find it inconvenient to reach out to my keyboard. (Which I guess means that I am using speech quite a lot to replace the keyboard.)The guys who like PTT most seem to have a PTT buitton on their microphone. Instead I wear such buittons on my wrist. It should be possible to map PTT to a hand or foot button for people with some but liited mobility.



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DPG15.6 (also DPI 15.3) + KB, Sennheiser MB Pro 1 UC ML, BTD 800 dongle, Windows 10 Pro, MS Surface Book 3, Intel Core i7-1065G7 CPU @ 1.3/1.5GHz (4 cores, 8 logical, GPU=NVIDIA Quadro RTX 3000 with Max-Q Design.



 11/05/2020 08:39 PM
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mikeoc4me
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Even when I put the microphone to sleep for  5 seconds there will be a delay when I wanted to wake up. I also have a device called switch driver which emulates the plus key and when I use it there is still the very same pause or freezing When I use it to wake up  Dragon from the off state. I never had any of these problems with Windows 7.I did a 15 day trial with sspeechstart  and always turned off the microphone but still had a problem with the delay of turning back on and freezing and having to restart Dragon.Restarting  Verbally while frozen is great but it doesn't seem to always work even when I acknowledge  restart.

 11/06/2020 12:04 PM
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Ag
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Originally posted by: mikeoc4me  Restarting  Verbally while frozen is great but it doesn't seem to always work even when I acknowledge  restart.

I feel better that I am not the only person seeing this - which I interpret as: SpeechStart+ RESTART DRAGON does not always work.  Sometimes you see the ACKNOWLEDGE RESTART filled circle, but nothing happens when you do... even repeatedly.  And, for me, sometimes RESTART DRAGON does not work at all.



-------------------------

DPG15.6 (also DPI 15.3) + KB, Sennheiser MB Pro 1 UC ML, BTD 800 dongle, Windows 10 Pro, MS Surface Book 3, Intel Core i7-1065G7 CPU @ 1.3/1.5GHz (4 cores, 8 logical, GPU=NVIDIA Quadro RTX 3000 with Max-Q Design.

 11/06/2020 11:47 AM
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PG LTU
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If it is not the profile (and check for an accumulation of unused audio sources), it sounds to me like the delay may have something to do with disk or memory swap space. On an underpowered I5 machine I run off a USB stick, I get these kinds of delays, but they are not limited to Dragon and also happen e.g. just switching back to a browser window playing a live video feed from my cable tv provider or even connecting to my local media server for just audio over a headless player (so no graphical overhead at all).

-------------------------




PG





Remember folks, my comments and this forum are for entertainment value only, please, no wagering or other reliance on the contents herein.  I permit no commercial use of my ideas (whether expressions or embodiments) without my written consent.

 11/06/2020 06:05 PM
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mikeoc4me
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I have no idea what you mean by checking for an accumulation of unused audio sources and have no idea how to do it. Just to check that I wasn't having a problem from other sources I closed every browser and tab I have running and only used Microsoft Word by itself. The dictation works absolutely perfectly with barely a mistake. When I say go to sleep it turns off immediately. Then when I say wake-up 5 seconds later I have to wait 16 seconds for the microphone to turn back on. I have no idea what to do or try next to solve this problem. While dictating this I put the microphone to sleep for 30 seconds and then when I Told her to wake up it turned on instantly. Turning off for a short moment will cause a massive delay. The only other item I have running is my jouse (joystick mouse). I contacted Compusult The company that makes my Jouse and no one else has reported the problem. I have no idea what to try next.

 11/07/2020 06:49 AM
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R. Wilke
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As far as "accumulation of unused audio sources", go to "manage user profiles", select the profile, and click on "Properties". In the following screen, you will find a list of all the dictation sources associated with that profile. Whenever you add a new dictation source, it will linger on and Dragon by itself doesn't provide a way to remove them if they are no longer needed. Unused audio sources may or may not have an overall impact, and for the least, they take up some storage in the user profile which is probably redundant if they are no longer used. If you're interested, go to my website and have a look at one of my utilities called DragonSources which has been created specifically to provide a way to remove such unused sources. As with all my utilities, you can always download, install and create a free of charge 30 day trial.

On the subject of using the sleep mode of the Dragon microphone, I have always been among those recommending not to use it for all the issues which that had created in the past. Just recently, I started using it again for particular reasons. So far, switching back-and-forth between the sleep mode and the awake mode in which ever way and no matter how long the intervals hasn't caused any problem at all for me. I use DPG 15.6, just for reference, and a number of different microphones, but they don't matter also.

Maybe having a look at your Dragon log file might help in determining what is going on. Therefore, I'd suggest that you create a copy of it immediately after the next time you encounter such a delay, and submit the copy as an attachment to a message on this forum. If you're not absolutely certain how this is done, don't hesitate to ask.



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 11/08/2020 07:50 PM
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mikeoc4me
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I have 2 audio sources, My buddy flamingo microphone I have been using for years and the new Array AndreaMA. I only started using The TwistMike recently for noise cancelling purposes. I am using the buddy microphone right now which I switched back to recently to see if the new TwistMike was the problem or not. I never had This problem until I upgraded To the latest Windows Dragon and KnowBrainer. I just did a test in word and discovered that after I say wake up the microphone is still grey but I can start dictating and as soon as it turns yellow or green everything that I said will appear on the screen as if it had turned on immediately. It does this every time. It is hearing what I'm saying but the microphone isn't showing that it's on. I don't know why it's doing This . I also noticed that everything I'm saying now is going through Dragon Capture . I don't recall having a problem in the past dictating into the KnowBrainer forum. I have attached the Dragon log file which was dated 8/11/2020 And only goes back to late last monthWith everything else on one day it seems.
I also noticed that I can't paste anything into the KnowBrainer site Or say scratch that with any result.
 11/08/2020 08:21 PM
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mikeoc4me
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I forgot to attach the file in my quick reply.Looks like I can't attach it because it is too large.

36,000 + Kilobytes and  I get an error message.

Is it normal for Dragon to play a 4 note tone followed by a 4 note tone when shutting down?

These tones happening about 15 or 20 seconds after shutting down.

 



 11/09/2020 05:18 PM
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R. Wilke
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Your Dragon logfile shouldn't be larger than 10 MB, because once it goes above that size, Dragon will start creating a new one. I am not sure what is going on with your installation, but I would suggest running a repair of Dragon, to begin with.

Since you mentioned DragonCapture, your dictation will only go through it whenever you are in a non-supported application. Also, keep in mind that if you run a repair of Dragon, you will also have to run a repair of DragonCapture. They are twins, in some ways.


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 11/09/2020 10:30 PM
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mikeoc4me
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Is the KnowBrainer site supposed to be a supported Application Or does it always go through Dragon capture

Can you tell me how to run a repair of Dragon and Dragon capture, I couldn't find any information on the forum or online.

Can you also tell me why I am not able to paste anything Here and if I try to correct a word after I choose the right one from the correction box it does not change here on the page.

The scratch that command does not work here either.

Maybe after a repair things will change. 



 11/10/2020 12:01 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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The KnowBrainer website is Dragon friendly but you will need Dragon's default HTML Option settings and the Dragon browser extension. If you see a green • or checkmark in the DragonBar, you should be good to go. You should have Active Accessibility and Select-&-Say capability in this forum's Quick Reply box, at the bottom of this thread. You should also be able to dictate into the more featured Reply box. This field doesn't support Dragon Select-&-Say but does support Active Accessibility, proper capitalization and spacing.

 

You will also need the right browser. Firefox can be a bit dicey. Google Chrome may sometimes drop the extension and require re-launching but Microsoft Edge appears to be bulletproof



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 11/10/2020 01:25 PM
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R. Wilke
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I had planned on posting an answer to your questions once my working day has finished, and it is a good thing that Lunis beat me to it, because, quite obviously, I got it all wrong and would have gone in a completely different direction based on my misunderstanding, at least as far as how DragonCapture and KnowBrainer related. Sorry for the Germans failing so easily to see the wood for the trees, ever so often, and it seems like the form got used to getting an almost daily proof of it, coming in regularly when everyone else in Germany starts working, sometime this year.

As far as running repairs of any program, go to "apps and features" in the Windows Control Panel and start from there.



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 11/10/2020 07:25 PM
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mikeoc4me
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How do I set Dragon's default HTML Option settings and the Dragon browser Extension
I tried to run a repair for Dragon and Dragon capture. After I started I received an error message Dragon 15 requires elevation. Please run setup.exe From the installation source. I can't find the setup .exe in the Nuance folder in programs.
 11/10/2020 08:37 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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Good timing as it relates to a previous discussion on the pros and cons of disabling the UAC which you just made our case. While most professionals recommend against disabling the UAC, this is 1 of the reasons why we disable it. Most end users no longer run into this problem but some do. Try disabling the UAC, installing Dragon and if you prefer, re-enabling the UAC. If you would like details on this process, look up “elevation” in the Quick Tips at the top of this page. However, if you have not yet uninstalled Dragon, STOP. This is an unnecessary sledgehammer approach.

Unless you changed your HTML default options, they are already set correctly. Just verify that you have checkmarks in your Dragon Options/Commands tab Enable HTML support and Enable commands in HTML Windows.

The 1st time you open Google Chrome, Firefox or Microsoft Edge, Dragon prompted you to install a Dragon extension. Assuming you didn't make the fatal mistake of ignoring that advice, you already have these extensions. If you disabled these extensions, simply open your browser extensions (referred to add-ons in Firefox) and reenable it. If your Dragon extensions are AWOL, you will find down links in your KnowBrainer Public Toolbox. Now you know why we made it.

PS: If it's too late and you still need to install Dragon, double-click %USERPROFILE%\AppData\Local\Temp\Dragon\Setup.exe When a Dragon installation fails, it will leave this temporary folder which also saves time. And... If all else fails, we offer Global White Glove Remote Support



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 11/11/2020 07:40 PM
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mikeoc4me
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My UAC is off, probably when you Installed Dragon when I was using white glove support. HTML support and HTML commands do have checkmarks. I never get the green Asterix or checkmark anywhere on the DragonBar.
Even with UAC off still get the message about elevation when trying to repair Dragon. Firefox and chrome both had the Dragon extension, I just added it to Microsoft edge. The forum is still going through Dragon capture.
should I still run setup.eXE Without installing Dragon?
 11/11/2020 09:17 PM
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R. Wilke
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I suspect that the message you get isn't about UAC, but something different, and somewhat misleading. If you first installed DPI 15.0, and then ran the patch to 15.3, then you cannot run a repair of Dragon from the Windows Control Panel, and you will be prompted to run setup.exe from the install media when trying to do so, which is the misleading part of it.

If my assumption is correct, you would have to first uninstall DPI from the Control Panel, reinstall 15.0, and then run the patch to 15.3 again. However, you may not even have to repair Dragon, I just suggested doing so with regards to the microphone issues you mentioned, and it might also help with the web extensions. But if you have the install media, and the patch installer, and if you are sure you know what you are doing, it will never hurt. When doing so, you will also have to run a repair of DragonCapture which is easy to do from the Control Panel.



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 11/12/2020 01:42 AM
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Mav
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The message _is_ about UAC and elevated permissions.

When you install Dragon by double-clicking setup.exe, this installation bootstrapper is requesting elevated permissions, as you can see from the shield overlay on the application icon.

Once setup.exe is being run with elevated permissions it performs a few checks and then runs Windows Installer to install the "Dragon 15.msi" package (or whatever version you're using).

Since Windows Installer has been started by the elevated setup.exe, it's also running with elevated permissions and can perform its duty unhindered.

During installation, a copy of the msi file (or some extracts) are saved to %WINDIR%\Installer (a hidden system folder) and that's the file being used when you click "Modify" in the "Apps and features" control panel.

Because the control panel or the msi file itself doesn't request elevated permissions and thus the Dragon installation finds it cannot continue mid-term.

 

As the message suggests: Start the installation using setup.exe from the original installation location and you should get an option to repair or remove Dragon.

 

hth,

mav

 11/12/2020 06:40 AM
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R. Wilke
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Mav,

 

I really don't mean to be a smart aleck, but this is the message you get when starting the repair of DPI 15.3 (patched) from the Windows Control Panel, in German, and this most likely what the user saw, in English of course:

 



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 11/12/2020 05:43 PM
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mikeoc4me
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After adding the Dragon extension to Microsoft edge the KnowBrainer forum has become friendly. Don't have to go through DragonCapture and unable to paste into the page and can correct words with no problem. After my trial with Speechstart I just purchased it the other day. I was trying to solve my microphone problem before purchasing it. I discovered today that when I use the go to sleep command and then the wake-up command I get the 20 second pause waking up. If I use the microphone off command and then the microphone on command so far it will turn on instantly. Now I am going to switch back to my TwistMike as soon as I can get someone to help and see how everything goes with that.
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